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DFS - Deutsche Flugsicherung - airport charges

Each Eurocontrol state has the option whether to levy or to exempt aircraft from terminal charges. These relate to navigation services to an airport – and not to a, for example, TMA transit. France chose to exempt all sub 2t aircraft from terminal charges. Germany has chosen to levy the terminal charge at 16 larger airports.

Pure speculation on my part, but the terminal charge is triggered on departure, so it can’t be paid on the ground!

Just got an invoice from DFS (10.70 EUR incl. VAT) and DWD (0.15 EUR, VAT free) for my VFR departure during a VFR flight from EDDC to ESME.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uji9stuxk375iks/DFS.pdf?dl=0

The only time I was in controlled airspace was in EDDC CTR. I paid my landing and parking fees at the airport, so this is another kind of charge for the airspace.

I did not receive an invoice for the VFR approach the previous day.

Also, I have no idea why DWD billed me, I didn’t use any meteorological services.

In the invoice they refer to AIP GEN 4.2-9. I don’t find any text in the page related to the charges I paid, or how they were calculated. Also they mention: “The DFS Deutsche Flugsicherung GmbH levies charges for the use of Air Navigational Services during the landing phase of flights at the major German airports (Terminal Charges).” As far as I know I didn’t land in EDDC during a departure from EDDC, unless DFS considers ESME a major German airport,.

I don’t care about the amount to pay, it is minuscule, I just try to understand how I was meant to know about this charge and how I should be able to calculate it?

ESME, ESMS

Alan_South wrote:

Pure speculation on my part, but the terminal charge is triggered on departure, so it can’t be paid on the ground!

But they can probably make an educated guess, that your’re planning to depart at some point

EGTR

Alan_South wrote:

Pure speculation on my part, but the terminal charge is triggered on departure, so it can’t be paid on the ground!

mmgreve wrote:

But they can probably make an educated guess, that your’re planning to depart at some point

They levy a charge for the approach, see here, not the departure. So they could easily charge you after landing on the ground.

ESME, ESMS

Dimme wrote:

I just try to understand how I was meant to know about this charge and how I should be able to calculate it?

It is in Germany’s AIP, Section GEN 4.3, as stated on the invoice. Where have you been looking for it, if you were unable to find it? The calculation method is

Rate = t * p
with t being the base rate of 130,59 € + VAT and p being the weight factor of the aircraft, calculated as p=(MTOW [tons]/50)^0,7.

So they could easily charge you after landing on the ground

Especially for these kind of charges, “they” need to have a system in place to invoice them, as these are also being levied for approaches without a landing. Furthermore the people at Dresden airport (and everywhere else, too) where you pay the airport fees have nothing to do with DFS whatsoever.

Last Edited by tschnell at 08 Nov 18:48
Friedrichshafen EDNY

tschnell wrote:

It is in Germany’s AIP, Section GEN 4.3, as stated on the invoice.

I have been reading the invoice over and over again, yet I fail to see where it mentions GEN 4.3. However, I find the equation you mention in GEN 4.2-8 which is not mentioned in the invoice. Doing the calculations, I get 9.35 EUR, which is not the billed amount. Also, I don’t remember ever mentioning my MTOW to ATC, so DFS is up to guesswork now?

Fun fact: In GEN 4.2-8 they mention maxMTOW. I was never taught maxMTOW in ATPL sausage factory. Naively I thought MTOW was already a maximum value.

In any case, none of the above matters, I was billed for a departure… didn’t even land in Germany in the end of my trip.

tschnell wrote:

Furthermore the people at Dresden airport (and everywhere else, too) where you pay the airport fees have nothing to do with DFS whatsoever.

ESME, ESMS

To follow on about IFR enroute charges. As a lot of you know EDMS Charges that whether you do an approach or not. as long as youve filed an IFR flightplan. Which is not in their Airport Fee information.

As usual The weather between LHTL and EDMS was crap so I had to file. And since I needed a currency approach I did that as well even though I broke out at 2500’ AGL. I received the bill, and knowing the ins and outs, I paid it because I did the approach and its usual and customary in Europe to be charge for approaches.

On leaving I did a Y plan and since they know that I wont pay them an IFR Departure fee because I am leaving on a Y plan they didnt bust my chops like they had earlier in the year. Because we came to an understanding, I wont pay for an IFR enroute fee.

The Moral of the story is, dont just take it, speak up if you think something is incorrect.

KHTO, LHTL

C210_Flyer wrote:

As a lot of you know EDMS Charges that whether you do an approach or not. as long as youve filed an IFR flightplan. Which is not in their Airport Fee information
I understand that you are quite obsessed with this 5€ fee ;-), but some things should be clarified for the casual reader:

1. The Airport Fee Information for EDMS clearly states that the IFR fee is charged for any flight to/from EDMS that has an IFR segment anywhere along the route, regardless of the actual flight rules on departure or arrival. In German, from here: http://www.airport-straubing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/EDMS_Entgeltordnung_01.09.2017.pdf

Für Flüge von und nach EDMS die ganz oder teilweise nach Instrumentenflugregeln
durchgeführt werden wird ein Aufwandsentgelt von € 4,62 je Vorgang berechnet. Dieses Aufwandsentgelt wird mit Aufgabe eines Flugplanes nach/von EDMS fällig bei dem
ein Teil des Fluges nach Instrumentenflugregeln erfolgt, dieser Flugplan damit über die
CFMU in unser Abrechnungs System intergriert wird und ist damit unabhängig von den
tatsächlichen Flugregeln des An/Abfluges am Platz

C210_Flyer wrote:

On leaving I did a Y plan and since they know that I wont pay them an IFR Departure fee because I am leaving on a Y plan they didnt bust my chops like they had earlier in the year. Because we came to an understanding, I wont pay for an IFR enroute fee.
Probably you did a “Z” plan, but anyway if you did not end up paying the IFR fee, then they were being nice to you, because their fee structure explicitly states the opposite, see above.

2. These fees have nothing to do with the DFS fees on EDDx-Airports discussed above, but are being charged by the small, community-owned Straubing Airport for installation and maintenance of the approach, the additional qualification for their AFIS-people etc. I am more than happy to pay a reasonable fee like this for a massive improvement of an infrastructure and I am pretty sure that these 5€ will never recover the initial and recurring costs for the IFR procedure.

Last Edited by tschnell at 11 Nov 08:45
Friedrichshafen EDNY

tschnell wrote:

1. The Airport Fee Information for EDMS clearly states that the IFR fee is charged for any flight to/from EDMS that has an IFR segment anywhere along the route, regardless of the actual flight rules on departure or arrival. In German, from here: http://www.airport-straubing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/EDMS_Entgeltordnung_01.09.2017.pdf

Two things:

1. Exactly what date was this document printed? I think it was 01.09.2017 or September 1, 2017 was it not?
Did the previous document that was published have the IFR route fee? Answer No As far as I know they have been billing for the IFR flight plan fee since 2015. I caught them doing so just by accident, in mid 2016. I had an auto-payment set up so when they billed me it would automatically be paid. That was occurring ever since they got their computer program tied to Brussels in 2015.

2. Since the language of Aviation is English they should have it in both German as well as English. If they want then they should state that German text takes precedence over the English text in case of confusion with words or phrases.

tschnell wrote:

but are being charged by the small, community-owned Straubing Airport for installation and maintenance of the approach

Exactly what does my filling an IFR flight plan have to do with their approach (recovery) fee when I do not even use the Approach? I can understand it, if Brussels were to charge me for filling and using an Instrument Flight Plan, an IFR fee because I am using services provided by their controllers. But when I arrive VFR why should I pay EDMS for their Instrument structure? Next they will ask to see our pilots licenses and when you have an Instrument endorsement they would charge you an Instrument arrival fee because you might use their landing system.

tschnell wrote:

I understand that you are quite obsessed with this 5€ fee ;-)

It is not I who is obsessed with the 5 Euro fee considering nowhere in this thread was the amount brought up. So who is the one bringing up the amount?

You and everyone on this site fails to understand the significance of an airport charging for a route structure. It is in a way a new income generator or tax that is levied. What is to stop them from instituting a VFR Flightplan fee structure once this IFR flightplan structure has been in place and accepted without condemnation? After all, you are landing at the airport and they have to maintain their runways etc etc. Small price to pay for such a nice little airport. So now you have a VFR arrival fee and a VFR landing fee.

What is to stop them from increasing the fee from 5 euro to 10, or 20? Hey the Corp guys dont care about charges cause it dosent come out of their pocket and the Corp owners dont care cause they can write it off and just pass along the cost to the customer.

Instrument Rating makes for greater utility of the airplane. It brings it one step closer to a true transportation tool rather than just a hobby. It increases safety by a geometric factor. But with this mentality that we have in Europe were even going to a toilet will cost you its no wonder user fees are in vogue. Come to think of it the toilet use is still free at EDMS. Its certainly one area of income which has been overlooked.

KHTO, LHTL

C210_Flyer wrote:

Did the previous document that was published have the IFR route fee? Answer No
I don’t know whether it was in the previous version. But you said “it is not in their fee information” – which is not true.

Since the language of Aviation is English they should have it in both German as well as English

Fair point, but here EDMS is in “good” company with most European airports, unfortunately.

Exactly what does my filling an IFR flight plan have to do with their approach (recovery) fee when I do not even use the Approach?

Don’t get me wrong – I admit that one might find charging this fee a little bit far-fetched. OTOH: Obviously this rule is supposed to discourage filing a Y/Z-Plan or cancelling 5 NM from the airport just to evade making a minor contribution to the infrastructure – by someone who does benefit from the procedure being in place, if only because it increases the dispatch reliability of a flight to EDMS.

So who is the one bringing up the amount?

Me – because IMHO it helps put things into perspective. Hey, this is not a 200€-handling fee in Spain, where you get absolutely nothing in return.

You and everyone on this site fails to understand the significance of an airport charging for a route structure

They do not charge for a route structure, see above. They want to recover the cost for their own local IFR infrastructure from those who benefit from it. Alternative would be either to raise the IFR fee for actual departures or approaches, or to figure it into eveybody’s landing fee. Surely you can find arguments for those methods too, but I do not find the way EDMS charges entirely unfair.

What is to stop them from increasing the fee from 5 euro to 10, or 20?

A public airport in Germany must have its fee structure approved by the state aviation authority, in this case “Luftamt Nordbayern”, and has to adhere to certain rules when changing it. I know for a fact that a certain airport “forgot” to put something into their fee structure and are now stuck with it – much to the delight of the informed pilot community ;-).

Last Edited by tschnell at 12 Nov 16:24
Friedrichshafen EDNY
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