Diamond factory visit

Peter wrote:

I don’t want to derail this thread any more so I won’t say

You could start a “TBM factory visit” thread instead.

There is much involved in choosing a plane than just the plane and the price. For example if the only airfield within a reasonable distance has no hangarage for a DA42/62 (which is a big plane, in terms of hangar floor space) then you probably won’t buy it. Likewise if there are no maintenance facilities within range. If I bought one of these, where I am based, it would sit outdoors and rot in the salt spray.

It is a very good point about the acceptable fuel burn at low levels, and the ability to get decent photos. To many people, myself included, these are vital. Otherwise you have to buy 2 planes and then your currency on at least one of them will be rubbish. I posted my own reasons for staying with what I have a few times e.g. here

I would like to know why Diamond think the DA62 will sell to private owners when the DA42 mostly didn’t. IMHO at these prices the proposition is a “business” one i.e. a busy FTO operating one of these a few hundred hrs a year and at a few hundred per hour will make enough to recoup the capital cost in a few years.

Peter wrote:

I would like to know why Diamond think the DA62 will sell to private owners when the DA42 mostly didn’t.

Because as a 6/7 seater it is of no interest to an FTO. They go for the cheapest thing that will satisfy their authority’s requirements for a multi-engine aircraft, both in terms of purchase price and running cost. And they don’t even care too much about the running cost, because this is mainly a problem of the students, not the FTO. This is why we see so many Seminoles and Senecas in the small and medium FTOs. They can be bought for almost nothing (< 100,000 Euro) and the fuel is paid for by the customer. Only a very large FTOs which utilises their multi-engine trainers for more than 5 hours every day can think about spending a million on a single aircraft (the FTO where I instruct has over 30 aircraft on the fleet and I strongly doubt that their combined value exceeds one million €).

Which leaves only private owners as customers and the occasional self-flying businessman who takes some of his employees along for the trip. For a commercial charter operator, even a very light jet (like a Mustang or Eclipse) is difficult to operate without loss – as we have seen from numerous failed businesses. Piston twins a a thing of the past for commercial operators except from some very small niche markets.

It will be interesting to see who are the buyers and operators of those DA62’s. I can’t imagine that they will become a familiar sight soon.

nokicky wrote:

We saw serial number 62 in production,…

That’s quite impressing. But I have never seen one in real life anywhere. Some FTOs (like Swiss Aviation Training) use DA42s which can be seen around here every now and then, but never a DA62.

If you’d buy a Cirrus, I can’t see why you wouldn’t seriously consider a DA62

One would get thrown out of COPA (as I already have been) if one posted there the most likely reason for buying a $1M SR22 versus a $1M DA62 (note: two smileys)

Both are very good planes but Cirrus have a massive edge on the “ecosystem” i.e. marketing and the whole “feel good” factor, with the massively family-friendly parachute. “The wife” knows that if the husband gets a heart attack, she can close the throttle and pull the chute and that is absolutely priceless even if few male pilots will admit it.

We saw serial number 62 in production,…

One never knows where planes are being sold to. For example it’s easily possible there is an FTO in Thailand which has bought 30 of these. Socata shipped loads of TB20s to these places, and nobody in Europe who watches the GA scene here would have suspected it. Similarly Diamond may well be selling loads to China. Airline pilot training in the developing world is exploding, and Diamond will know where the markets are. The customers are very well funded, with $100k+ from the parents who go round wearing PP watches as a social requirement.

IMHO the DA62 will not sell much to private owners in Europe but I am sure Diamond aren’t bothered by that.

Peter wrote:

Similarly Diamond may well be selling loads to China. Airline pilot training in the developing world is exploding, …

Yes, but why are they buying the DA62 and not DA42? You don’t need more than two seats in any training aircraft. And even for them it must make a difference if they spend 600,000 or a million per plane.

I would love to hear from someone who has owned one (or another Diamond aircraft), has it lived up to expectations? How were Diamond post purchase?

Our ATO was an early adopter and they have been very good with over five years in service and the airframes now with Austro engines. I believe Diamond are excellent in offering after care customer service. Private owners of DA-40s also seem very pleased.

I am impressed how they have stood up to the heavy useage, although they are still in the early stages compared to our Senecas or 152s (still going strong and approaching 50 in a few years).

RobertL18C wrote:

I believe Diamond are excellent in offering after care customer service. Private owners of DA-40s also seem very pleased.

Uff, ufff, uff, are you being sarcastic?

If you go to e.g. https://www.diamondaviators.net/, you will hear a lot about orphaned av-gas versions of DA-40s and general disenterest of Diamond towards existing customers…