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DME - any point in having one?

I’ve been trying to work out the correct future equipment fit for the RV-10 in order to meet the equipment levels needed to train for IR and do the tests (and of course, fly IFR around europe in the future).

I have come across the problem i’m sure many of you are aware of, but it’s news to me – the fact that the Americans seem to have pretty much written off ADF/DME yet it seems essential for many approaches here.

I was hoping that by fitting an IFD440/GTN-650 into my Dynon Skyview setup it would magically give me everything I need – after all it has ILS. However it seems that because GPS can be substituted legally in America (i think?) Garmin and others just haven’t bothered implementing ADF or DME in modern products.

However, the instructor i’ve been chatting to has clearly said i need “pilot interpreted non-precision approach” capacilities, therefore ADF/DME with needles.

What’s the situation here? Have I summed it up correctly? If so – what do aircraft like the DA-40 with G1000 do for ADF/DME?

EGKL, United Kingdom

Whatever the rules and regs, DME is a life saver. Personally I wouldn’t want to fly hard IFR without one.

You should need little more than this to convince you.

However, the ADF is a waste of space, and should not be required by anyone, including an IRE.

EGKB Biggin Hill

ADF is pointless because nobody in his right mind would follow an ADF needle other than for fun. While you might be legally obliged to carry it with an EASA-reg when performing NDB approaches (not with N-reg as you have the substitution allowance), it has no operational value and is therefore usually skipped. There are very few places where an NDB approach gives you a lower MDA than an RNAV approach and even when flying it, you would not use the ADF even though it is legally required for EASA-reg. I do not know of a single case where a pilot was reprimanded for flying an NDB approach without ADF on board. Over time there will be zero places.

DME is rather relevant in Europe and will remain so as it is considered to be the most suitable backup for satellite navigation. An ILS requires another navigation source as a check. This most often is a DME in Europe as markers are becoming rare. G1000 cockpits can integrate a remote DME.

Last Edited by achimha at 12 Sep 10:45

Am I correct in saying that essentially that accident can be summarised as someone not following a published approach? I.E. It was published as a DME approach and the pilot ignored it. Presumably if there was a proper GPS approach published, then the problem would not have occurred.

The trouble is – DME receivers just don’t appear to be for sale on the market! I haven’t found a single example of a homebuilt aircraft with a DME fitted.

EGKL, United Kingdom

carlmeek wrote:

However, the instructor i’ve been chatting to has clearly said i need “pilot interpreted non-precision approach” capacilities, therefore ADF/DME with needles.

I missed this bit. Your instructor needs to catch up. He is welcome to call me if he wishes.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy, sounds like a sniff of possible good news – are you saying that you can do full instruction and test with the equipment available on the ADF-440 (no DME) ?

EGKL, United Kingdom

The question would be where you could do your precision approach. There are very few ILS’s which don’t require DME, and LPV is not (yet) a precision approach.

The lack of ADF should be fine, as an LNAV approach (with SBAS disabled, so no cheating with LNAV+V) should be fine.

But I still say that is not the point. I really rely on OnlineGAR and your death would hit me hard, so please get a DME.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy wrote:

as an LNAV approach (with SBAS disabled, so no cheating with LNAV+V) should be fine.

How would you do that on a GNS4x0W?

LOL – My death would hit me quite hard too. Definitely don’t want death!

I just found a KN62A pre-owned for 1500 from Harry… just need to find a space on the panel….

EGKL, United Kingdom

carlmeek wrote:

Am I correct in saying that essentially that accident can be summarised as someone not following a published approach?

That’s certainly one way of putting it.

The other is that his widow would not be a widow if he had had a DME.

Honestly, mate, get a DME.

carlmeek wrote:

I haven’t found a single example of a homebuilt aircraft with a DME fitted.

That is because homebuilts don’t fly IFR, that opportunity is only just arising and will probably mainly be used for cloudbreaks to VFR airfields. If you are going to do approaches, get a DME.

carlmeek wrote:

DME receivers just don’t appear to be for sale on the market!

Um. Really though?

EGKB Biggin Hill
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