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Do Instrument hours in the CPL course count towards the EIR?

Currently I’m finishing the ATPL theory exams. Next I’m looking into the possibilities to gain a CPL /IR. Is was thinking it could be wise to obtain the CPL in combination with the EIR and eventually go for the CBIR. The main advantage (as I see it) is that you already can make instrument hours during regular flights.

Is it possible to use the required instrument hours (10) for a CPL towards the necessary hours (15) for the EIR? In other words: Would it be theoretically possible to gain an EIR with an extra 5 hours?

I looked up the requirements in Part-FCL:

Enroute Instrument rating:
(1) at least 80 hours of theoretical knowledge instruction in accordance with FCL.615; and
(2) instrument flight instruction, during which:
(i) the flying training for a single-engine EIR shall include at least 15 hours of
instrument flight time under instruction;

CPL requirements
8. The flying training, not including type rating training, shall comprise a total of at least 150 hours, to include all progress tests, of which up to 5 hours for the entire course may be instrument ground time. Within the total of 150 hours, applicants shall complete at least:
…..
(e) 10 hours of instrument flight instruction, of which up to 5 hours may be instrument ground time
in an FNPT I, FTD 2, FNPT II or FFS. An applicant holding a course completion certificate for the Basic
Instrument Flight Module shall be credited with up to 10 hours towards the required instrument
instruction time. Hours done in a BITD shall not be credited;

jkv
EHEH

I would guess that it depends on the instructor. As an instructor you could very well instruct the instrument hours during the CPL phase without being an IRI(or FI with IR priveleges). If the instructor is not allowed to instructs towards an IR licence I would say that you can’t count them. But if he is, I guess it would be ok.

Sweden

No. (small note – you appear to quote the requirements for an integrated CPL course with 150 hours from zero, but that makes no difference here since the instrument hours requirement is the same 10 hours regardless of integrated or modular CPL training).

The reason is that the requirements for the specific standard IR course are reduced by 10 hours if you have a CPL, so it is not really a credit you can apply to any course, just towards that particular full IR course.

Biggin Hill

The 10 hours obtained on the CPL course can count towards the CBIR.

Why bother with the EIR at all?

Ok, thank you. Would it be more wise to do the EIR first and work towards the CBIR, followed by the CPL course (which is only 15 hours since you have the IR).

1. Would it make sense?
2. Would this theoretically save me dual hours?

Thanks for your help. It is still hard to get my head around the requirements ;-)

jkv
EHEH

Bathman wrote:

Why bother with the EIR at all?

I understand what you are saying. My only reason would be that I can use the privilege of instrument flying fairly quick. Taking the full IR course, would take me about a year I suppose, flying at weekends.

Also note that I have already an IMC rating (which I don’t use, since I live in the Netherlands), which theoretically could save me 5 hours on the EIR.

Ps. I say “theoretically”, since I might need more hours to gain the required level.

Last Edited by jkv at 02 Jan 18:40
jkv
EHEH

Also note that I have already an IMC rating (which I don’t use, since I live in the Netherlands), which theoretically could save me 5 hours on the EIR.

The chances are that the IMC instructor was not eligible to train for an IR or EIR

(h) When the applicant for the EIR has completed instrument flight time under instruction with an* IRI(A) or an FI holding the privilege to provide training for the IR or EIR these hours may be credited towards the hours required in point (c)(2)(i) and (ii) up to a maximum of 5 or 6 hours respectively.

You would also need the Training Records from your IMC rating, from which you could determiner the instructors credentials

(2) The completion of the instrument flight instruction provided by an IRI(A) or FI shall be documented in a specific training record and signed by the instructor.

Last Edited by Tumbleweed at 03 Jan 00:49

jkv wrote:

Ok, thank you. Would it be more wise to do the EIR first and work towards the CBIR, followed by the CPL course (which is only 15 hours since you have the IR).

1. Would it make sense?

No idea about the rules on hours, but if you want an IR, just do the CB-IR. Why bother with the EIR as you already have an IMC so don’t need an intro to instrument flight?

EGTK Oxford

Totally agree, if you are going for a full IR the EIR is a total waste of time and effort. I gather only 2 have been issued in the UK and France since it came in.

jkv, I did my CBIR in 4 weekends (of of them 3 days), from IR(R) rating (and I was a bit rusty). The EIR would probably have taken 2. I think it only makes sense getting the EIR first if you see a fairly large gap between both.
I think I credited (some of / all?) my IR(R) training hours for the minimum required for the CBIR, so I only needed the 10 ATO hours (but ended up doing 20 including the exam). My IR(R) instructor wasn’t a IF instructor as far as I know.

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