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Does clearance to enter CAS extend to any CAS which adjoins it further down the route?

Yesterday I got cleared flying eastbound via SAM at FL065

I realised that a CAS bust would occur upon exiting their airspace as shown above and alerted them to my intention to descend 5300ft abeam SAM.

But what if I said nothing and the controller didn’t spot it?

According to CAP1404 and the new CAA policy (summary) I might now have my license removed.

But a pilot is not expected to know the controller’s authority with regard to CAS clearances, is he?

I don’t remember whether Solent has ever previously issued me with a clearance for the adjoining Class A. They obviously do control the Class A above their zone (base FL055) otherwise they could not have cleared me for FL065.

Once, in Italy, I got a similar situation and they had a go at me for busting, and got me to do a rapid turn and a descent.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

VFR or IFR? I’m not sure about IFR, but for VFR I would certainly request clearance before entering another TMA…

Last Edited by ivark at 17 Nov 17:37
EETU, Estonia

IFR once cleared you’re cleared. VFR is definitely the problem in such situation.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

I was IFR because (a) I told them so and (b) you cannot be VFR in Class A

But this wasn’t “Eurocontrol IFR”. It was Bournemouth 119.47 (west of SAM) who negotiated it with Solent (SAM ATC) for FL065, while I was still in Class G.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

IFR UK style is also a mess, I had a yes/no between Cardiff and Bristol, as there was no way to descend/climb, I had to stay on the edge and fly a 2D aircraft (technically it was a lateral bust)

Last Edited by Ibra at 17 Nov 17:58
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Addressed in MATS Part 1, section 1, chapter 4.

London, United Kingdom

These depictions of southeastern English airspace are always so confusing, I don’t think I have the courage to fly there.

Do we talk about situations where the adjoining airspace is controlled by the same TWR or by a different one?

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

MATS Part 1, section 1, chapter 4 local copy is fascinating reading (especially w.r.t. differences in UK procedures v. everywhere else ) but I can’t find the answer there.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I have always thought you are cleared to wherever or whatever you have received a clearance to (or what). Who gives that clearance, I couldn’t care less.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

It wouldn’t be uncomon to be told about the impending bust at a point in the 1st sector that would give you a choice of busting or over stressing the airframe.
This happened to me in France. I am usually very cautious and less likely to be caught out but after a week of seamless handovers and transists I had let my guard down.
What was really annoying, was after being told there was no chance of the same level transit, a hard spiral descent and a free call, we were immediately cleared back up there by the new controller.

United Kingdom
90 Posts
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