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Don’t be afraid to become an Owner Pilot

The forum should really have a dropdown selector to distinguish between

FAA
EASA
UK

From some posts here it seems GA is very cumbersome in the UK, with mx shops spying on owners in their hangars, shutting down due to retirees or forcing their customers to install/maintain their planes in ways that exceed regulatory requirements.

At least that’s my impression reading EuroGa the last couple of years.

OTOH in the real world I see
- a low cost owner project consisting of an old 172 converted to Diesel using a pre owned engine, operated on condition, upgraded to dual G5, GNS530W, GNS430 (also used)

- the local clubs Archer upgraded with G5s, GTN650Xi, TruTrack A/P

- a Cirrus SR22 fitted with a KN6x DME

- using a 145 shop and changing some wire on a GNS530+Transponder to get ADS-B in/out and FLARM on an old Cherokee 140

All of the above were complete non-events compared to the horror stories that are propagated online.

Yes, YMMV, but I think it’s detrimental to a healthy, increasing GA scene to repeat old “stories of caution” over and over again. At the least, it discouraged me from buying a plane for many years, thinking it’s totally crazy and a bottomless can of worms.

For those that are interested in aircraft ownership but who are not keen on getting deep into the ins and outs of regulations/maintenance, additionally to the great advice found on EuroGA
→ there are people that will consult/advise you for comparatively very little money. And one can easily find them.

Last Edited by Snoopy at 20 May 20:09
always learning
LO__, Austria

Thanks @Snoopy. It was nice reading your announcement when you did buy your bird. For many of us still hoping to be owner pilots it is good to read those stories and your encouragement above.

EHLE, Netherlands

You are absolutely right in all respects.

There are many great opportunities out there in many places. Clearly, one needs to know the local possibilities and what is important.

One can add some more to your listing.

Snoopy wrote:

OTOH in the real world I see

The TB10 purchased in Romania right here in forum

A Piper Challenger literally taken out of the hangar after 7 years and put back to service with an annual and 2 radios (8.33 and Mode S)

A friend of mine who bought a Piper 28 with an “inop” labled AP which turned out to be totally servicable once the fuse was replaced….

Generally, a lot of upgrades involve G5’s and Aspens as well as engine monitors. The latter is also on my list.

The G5, the other retrofit EFIS of Garmin and the Aspens were a huge change in the right direction. In most cases they are manageable projects.

Upgrades of GNS430/530’ties by IFD 440/540 can almost been done while you wait.

Also there are a lot of horror stories about engine overhauls. Well, i was very happy with mine, done by Cermec in Puidoux. Would use them again any day.

Snoopy wrote:

For those that are interested in aircraft ownership but who are not keen on getting deep into the ins and outs of regulations/maintenance, additionally to the great advice found on EuroGA
→ there are people that will consult/advise you for comparatively very little money. And one can easily find them.

Some even do it for free/cost. It’s something I’ve enjoyed doing for many years now. What is better than helping others enjoy what you believe in.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

@Snoopy I have been owning and operating several certified types over twenty years in the UK, and during this period the airframes have aged, the manufacturer’s ADs have increased, the pool of experienced engineers has declined, and maintenance has increased above inflation.

Let’s not sugar coat what is happening in the sector. One of the reasons am a great supporter of the Permit to Fly and LAA philosophy is that it gives control to owners, without reducing standards. Conversely the standards are dropping in the certified sector, not just in the UK.

This Mike Busch article is a good example of what happens if an owner/operator is not properly engaged with the correct standards of maintenance. The owner, in fact, was a ‘hands on’ maintenance supervisor, or at least deluded himself to think this.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2021/april/pilot/savvy-maintenance-annual-deadlock

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

I think this photo of work orders for a simple SEP, to ensure all items are brought up to spec and logged correctly is a nice companion piece to the earlier link to the Mike Busch article. BTW there are more work orders on the other side of the frame :)

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

IMHO Part-ML, quick/inexpensive approval of minor things using FAA STC data directly with EASA, CS-STAN, blanket approval of FAA STC AMLs, owner acceptance of components, declared AMP and owner pilot maintenance etc… are good developments in EASA land.

Yes, it was screwed up years ago by throwing the Part-M blanket over all little planes in the first place, but it is fixed now and getting better still. Looks like soon an Engine monitor can be „CS-STANed“ without STC, for instance. It’ll take some time for younger folks to come in and live the change as well, while others, including those earning their living as mechanics, might stay set in their ways („Bla bla according to Law/Rule/Story dated 1996 you need to

  • have an autopilot for IFR
  • throw that prop away after 6 years
  • overhaul that engine every 12 years
  • maintain your plane like an Airbus if you lease it to a club with a DTO
  • know that buying a plane from XYZ EASA country is a nightmare to register in ZYX EASA country
  • maintain your plane like this in France, and like that in Germany, and forget about it in Italy…
  • get everything, especially the
    holy grail of AMPs approved by the authority if you deviate an inch from the DAH instructions
  • budget the purchase price once more for maintenance, you’ll see
  • get your ARC from the authority because Part-66 is something FAA only, and 145 will make you pay Jetplane prices
  • be careful, every shop is out to milk you
  • do the 50hr inspection at Luxury Service Center or it won’t count much for resale
  • etc…“

These work orders (@RobertL18C are by choice, right (at least they would be under Part-ML)?

Last Edited by Snoopy at 20 May 23:02
always learning
LO__, Austria

Mooney_Driver wrote:

Some even do it for free/cost. It’s something I’ve enjoyed doing for many years now. What is better than helping others enjoy what you believe in.

You get what you pay for, it’s worth what it costs and you need to be able to afford it, but remember there’s no free lunch ;)

No, seriously, it takes some effort to separate wheat from chaff aka. street credibility filter. Once that’s done, it’s ok to invest a little, it paid for me for sure.

It’s the sum of money and, if self researching, lots of time spent on

- someone who maintains your plane = good customer/client relationship (maintenance, required vs nice to do)
€€€€€ = thousands/tens of thousands

- books / videos / seminars / courses (engine info, operation)
€€€ (hundreds)

- social media sources (questioning everything and information analysis skills required)
time only, free (works well to feel a certain type for instance)

- acquaintances (eg fellow pilots of same type)
time only, free

- reading official publications
time only, free

- independent experts/agents/(brokers)
€€€ tens/hundreds (let’s say 50-100€/hour) and thousands for purchase transactions.

always learning
LO__, Austria

@Snoopy yes, each and every one, discussed, budgeted and approved.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

How much was it?

always learning
LO__, Austria

RobertL18C wrote:

@Snoopy I have been owning and operating several certified types over twenty years in the UK, and during this period the airframes have aged, the manufacturer’s ADs have increased, the pool of experienced engineers has declined, and maintenance has increased above inflation.

I get it, everything was simpler, easier and cheaper while the Wright brothers were alive ;-)
Look, I believe you, and I’m happy that people with your experience are here and willing to participate in these discussions. I just ask, that if you still believe this forum (and everywhere else) needs any more negativity around this topic, maybe it could be done in one of the other gazillion threads about it? And could we have at least one thread with a bit more optimism?

The negativity risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, nothing good can come out of having less people owning their own aircraft…

EHLE, Netherlands
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