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EASA/JAR Differences for IR and CPL

Interesting... does this mean that if you did the CPL/IR study, you could not get a JAA/EASA ATPL even if you logged the 500hrs multi pilot time?

Is there not some sort of conversion route from a CPL/IR+500hrs-MP to an ATPL?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

even if you logged the 500hrs multi pilot time?

You cannot log multi-pilot tme without a type rating, which requires ATPL level knowledge. This has been the case since 1999.

FCL.720A

(d) Multi-pilot aeroplanes. An applicant for the first type rating course for a multi-pilot aeroplane shall be a student pilot currently undergoing training on an MPL training course or comply with the following requirements:

(1) have at least 70 hours of flight experience as PIC on aeroplanes;

(2) hold a multi-engine IR(A);

(3) have passed the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations in accordance with this Part; and

(4) except when the type rating course is combined with an MCC course:

(i) hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of an MCC course in aeroplanes

What about converting an FAA ATP to a JAA/EASA ATPL?

Does the applicant have to do the XXX hours classroom - assuming he already has the jet type rating etc?

Very interesting about the 500 extra hours. Now I can understand the hordes of students living almost permanently in the cheap hotels in Bournemouth

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Does the applicant have to do the XXX hours classroom - assuming he already has the jet type rating etc?

No, but they need in excess of 1500 hours on a MP aeroplane

No, but they need in excess of 1500 hours on a MP aeroplane

Would it perhaps be 1500hrs TT including 100hrs night and including 500hrs MP ?

Except for the MP time, that is the FAA requirement.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

No, its in excess of 1500 hours on a MP Type

Is that the same thing as the former 2000-hr route (2000 hours in Part 25 aircraft) or is it something else?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The UK specified a 1500 hour route and a 3000 hour route with reduced examination requirements in LASORS. The 3000 hour route is no longer detailed in CAP 804.

Thanks for the replies all. Looks like it started a good discussion...

You can do your skill test anywhere, however the examiner, if not from the issuing state (UK in your case) should notify the UK CAA in advance and should get a briefing about the items the UK CAA wants checked.

I think that will be ok. One of the places that I have on my short list states a UK CAA approved examiner in house. I am going to be going through TK this year and so may head out that way in the summer to bolt on an MEP to my PPL and that would give me the chance to try out the place and speak to them; get a feel etc.

The non-exhaustive research I did in 2010/2011 showed that every country would accept UK CPL/IR exam passes for a CPL/IR done in their country, but if you did the flying outside the UK the UK CAA would not add the IR to your UK license afterwards unless the training and the test were done in the same country.

Some of the searching I have done recently, seems to indicate that isn't 100% true; but as you say Peter your search was non-exhaustive, and to be fair so was mine. Spain came up as one place that would accept TK for IR but not CPL, it had to be done and examined at a Spanish FTO... however with that said there were still a lot of references to JAR... so I wonder if it has changed under EASA but there are still websites to be updated.

If all this easa crap really is a level playing field then why and earth would anyone do the atpl theory exam in the UK at 80 quid a pop when you can do it them for 8 Euros in Poland. Where you also get the benefit of getting the results in a couple of days rather than 3 plus weeks here in the UK (which means you miss the cut off date to apply for any resits)

It is interesting you say that, on my searches I have noticed that Bristol GS are getting partnerships with lots of non-UK schools. One of their partners is the school that I have short-listed in Poland; so that would place me firmly in the TK exams, IR course and CPL in the same country. I will look into that further.

My second guess is that they all read the pprune professional pilot training forum (or pick up the equivalent gossip) where a bunch of FTO owners/instructors are anonymously posting that you are less likely to get a job if you do your CPL/IR in southern Europe.

I agree but would take that further. If I do manage to complete this, yes it would have taken many years but I would have done it at carefully chosen schools, and would have completed it much cheaper than the Integrated Route. Call me a cynic but the big three european FTOs are signing up the major AOC holders to only take ab-initios from them; on terms that if you look at it are rather financially beneficial to the FTO and AOC holder. I'm talking about the bonding, marketed as Sponsored Schemes. If you take length of time the £100k is tied up for and think of the interest accrued over 7 years, and the fact that bonds are not returned to you if you fail and/or leave due to medical reasons... then the amount of outlay for the FTO and AOC becomes a hell of a lot smaller... So there are incentives for them to work together to achieve this. The downside is that a young lates teens/early 20's "I want it now" school leaver will happily run up the debt to achieve this and then basically be buggered financially for ages. A good business plan for narrow focussed aggressive results driven business; sadly it comes down to numbers not people... not matter how they market it.

If somebody from the UK or Germany set up an FTO at say Zadar (LDZD) and did it in a well organised way they would do very well. A massive but very quiet and well organised airport.

Are you around for a beer anytime soon ;)

EDHS, Germany

Are you around for a beer anytime soon ;)

If I had nothing to do I might consider a project like that. It would be very interesting. But realistically you would need somebody with serious FTO organisational skills.

The downside is that a young lates teens/early 20's "I want it now" school leaver will happily run up the debt to achieve this and then basically be buggered financially for ages

How on earth does somebody like that raise £100k, or best part of that?

The biggest problem I see is that "we" actually know quite a bit about the various options, whereas the standard ATPL cadet knows almost nothing.

"We" know that one can do the JAA CPL in the USA, for example. If you want a financially streamlined route, and you are young and have no family etc "situation", then what you do is you go to the USA, do the PPL, build hours, do the CPL, do the IR, then come back to Europe and convert it all. The IR conversion is just 15hrs dual.

The proposed CBM IR will not help an ab initio candidate much because the 55 to 10hr min dual time reduction will be insignificant if he has to learn instrument flight from zero.

You will still need to sit through the hundreds of hours of JAA ground school, to enable the later award of the ATPL, but that isn't so expensive. I did 3 days at GTS for about £200.

I even heard there is a way to do a part of the JAA IR in the USA but the "informant" (who I suspect was not making it up, for a change) refused to elaborate. However that is likely to be irrelevant if you do the FAA IR and then convert in Europe; the bulk of the cost saving and efficiency improvement come from learning "IFR" in the USA.

Then there are small but cost-significant things like doing the IR as SE and convert to ME at the very end, which drastically reduces the cost of getting the piece of paper. Won't make you a good ME pilot but if you are going for an airline job, flying some shagged FTO Seminole for 55hrs (plus the standard con of the "170A flight test") does not give you any useful operational skills anyway.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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