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EASA/JAR Differences for IR and CPL

One of the places that I have on my short list states a UK CAA approved examiner in house.

Thats interesting because initial IR tests are conducted by a CAA Staff Examiner, the only exception being a limited number of Integrated ATOs not Modular.

Then there are small but cost-significant things like doing the IR as SE and convert to ME at the very end, which drastically reduces the cost of getting the piece of paper.

I have watched a few try this over the years but all have disproved the theory, in the end it cost more than doing the initial on a twin!

I have watched a few try this over the years but all have disproved the theory, in the end it cost more than doing the initial on a twin!

Why do you think that is, Tumbleweed?

I would be amazed if it was true for a pilot who (at the point of conversion to ME) had any reasonable flying currency.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

How on earth does somebody like that raise £100k, or best part of that?

I have looked at this route in the past, about 10 years ago and then again about 5 years ago, the rhetoric was becoming more aggressive; which turned me off to be honest. There were career development loans from a few banks available on an intermittent release basis so the further you go through the course the more you paid. It seemed very easy to get them 10 years ago. Although interestingly most of the banks whose names were quoted have gone bust (Risk Management anyone?) But worryingly 5 years ago, the rhetoric was more "Bank of Mum and Dad"; re-mortgaging options for parents etc...

My thoughts were that I did not want 100k around my neck with no asset of mine against it...

EDIT - But more worryingly, given the lack of places at the big three, people/parents/wild risk taking bank managers, must be funding this somehow...

One of the places that I have on my short list states a UK CAA approved examiner in house.

Thats interesting because initial IR tests are conducted by a CAA Staff Examiner, the only exception being a limited number of Integrated ATOs not Modular.

Shame there's no PM facility I don't want to name them on a forum (Come on Peter, hurry up, it's not like you have anything else to do... haha!), but search around Lodz and you will probably find something Italian sounding :)

EDHS, Germany

Why do you think that is, Tumbleweed?

Increased inertia, asymmetric operation, requires a lot more than 3 hours to get to grips with. If you do your initial IR in a twin you have to do 15 hours minimum in the aircraft, often that is not enough. If you are already experienced on a twin then it would be rather pointless doing an IR on a single and upgrading as you then have to pay for two initial tests. The principle therefore only applies to single pilots with minimal ME experience and in most cases the upgrade cannot be achieved in the minimum hours.

but search around Lodz and you will probably find something Italian sounding

They may well have a UK CAA examiner on the staff but he won't be conducting a UK CAA Initial IR Test!

Although interestingly most of the banks whose names were quoted have gone bust (Risk Management anyone?)

It would seem trivial to get the loan, get the stuff done, and then declare oneself personally bankrupt.

I don't think an airline is going to do credit checks on a prospective pilot

If they have even half a brain they will check out his drug and sex habits and his views on the exploitation of the ploretariat by the bourgeois management of a capitalist airline, by googling on his name and looking at his/her postings on f***book, but credit checks? Surely not.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

They may well have a UK CAA examiner on the staff but he won't be conducting a UK CAA Initial IR Test!

Oh joy, now I'm confused... so if someone does practical training abroad, they need a CAA Staff Examiner to conduct the initial? And we are all part of one EASA, one Europe... Surely if EASA requirements are met then it has to be issued, because EASA want standards across the bloc.

I don't think an airline is going to do credit checks on a prospective pilot

Maybe, but what about governments and agencies for the issues of crew immigration visas? Then surely if you can't get one, you can't do your job.

And wouldn't that remove the option of the contract self-employed route via some of the employment agencies? Because you're banned from being a director aren't you?

EDHS, Germany

Yes; good points.

The US visa might be fun... but I know one chap who went bankrupt a few years ago and has gone one now. There must be a time limit.

Because you're banned from being a director aren't you?

Only for a certain time. Also I very much doubt anybody at Companies House will be checking, but it's possible. Is a Limited Company mandatory for a contractor? Can't you work as a sole trader?

Re the IR examiners, there are now "industry examiners" so no need for CAA staff examiners, in theory.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Is a Limited Company mandatory for a contractor? Can't you work as a sole trader?

I don't think it is mandatory legally speaking, there are contractors at work (non-aviation activities), some are Ltd. some are Sole Traders; so that's what I am judging that on. But there was a thread on Prune a while ago about an EU outfit taking on Flight Deck via a large employment agency and they all seemed to be Ltd due to the tax situation it offered all parties on movement around international bases. As a lot of pilots seem to join the airline via that route, I was wondering if it would close that route into the industry down as you may not be able to hold a directorship...

With that said though I think the EU are taking interest in the contractor as a ltd company, especially where the work comes from 1 source company. Don't know any details just heard some murmurs from pilot and non-pilot sources.

EDHS, Germany

With that said though I think the EU are taking interest in the contractor as a ltd company, especially where the work comes from 1 source company. Don't know any details just heard some murmurs from pilot and non-pilot sources.

I thought that option was quite dodgy, via various Revenue initiatives generally and IR35 specifically.

I have a business (since 1978) and you have to be quite careful using contractors. There is a number of tests which the Revenue might use to determine that actually you are "employed", and working for the same company, exclusively, for a long time, is a bad idea.

The advantage of a Ltd Co is that you can pay yourself in dividends rather than salary, which saves the NIC contributions. I think it's worth around 5%. However the other advantages, e.g. being able to claim travel to your place of work as expenses, are available to self employed people too.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Re the IR examiners, there are now "industry examiners" so no need for CAA staff examiners, in theory.

Have a look at CAA Standards Doc 1 You will see that the CAA nominates the examiner for all IR Skill tests. Para 2.3.1

I read, a few months ago, that the UK CAA was going to charge £500 (or was it £800?) to approve a non-UK examiner, in the above scenario.

The latest scheme of charges has changed the requirement. The fee is £630 to approve a non-UK Examiner or £60 if they complete the online briefing. Bit of a no contest! Pity the briefing doesn't tell them what to do!

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