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Eclipse 500 - jet on the cheap?

A lot of people (especially wives of aircraft owners) are afraid of anything driven by a propeller or even two propellers. Trying to explain the difference between piston and turboprop is useless.

I think this is the one and only argument this is all about. The difference in prestige and trust between any kind of prop driven airplane and a jet is just huge. When people ask me about what plane I fly they will ask prop or jet. Nobody makes a big difference between a C172 and a TBM or on the other side between a single engine Cirrus Jet and a Gulfstream.

www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ

Back in the days when I flew piston twins commercially (the 1990s) I really heard things like this a lot of times: “I booked a flight to Florence, not an adventure! I’m not getting on board of this thing!” Always from women (men can’t admit that they are scared ). In the end, they all got on board, but sometimes it required a lot of talking. Since I fly a bizjet, I have often heard them say: “Oh, that’s a small aeroplane, but really cute!” and they want their picture taken in from of it (not once in front of a piston twin…).

EDDS - Stuttgart

Isn’t it good to have a wife with a pilot’s licence? While she doesn’t fly anymore she still knows enough ;-))

… she still knows enough…

But that can also have the opposite effect. I for example know enough of flying and aeroplanes not to go flying with anything or anybody… For example I would never, under no circumstances, get on board a Robinson helicopter with an amateur pilot. I once did with an instructor, but the combination of dangerous flying machine with a pilot of unknown skill level and experience would be too much for me.

EDDS - Stuttgart

No, my wife is cool. I am more scared in the plane than her ;-))

We have something in common: i have had a (photo) flight in an R22 that turned my skin light green, and the R44 in my hangar got out of control right in front of our hangar… Everybody was always amused that i send my kids behind the hangar when that thing takes off, … and now they know what my fear was. Crashed from 50 cm AGL and is completely destroyed ….

Crashed from 50 cm AGL and is completely destroyed ….

The R22 I took my trial lesson in crashed a couple of weeks after my flight during an autorotation exercise. Also completely destroyed, the instructor (not the one I flew with, but a pilot I knew well) severely injured but the student unharmed. The flying school owner it belonged to sacked the instructor while he was still in hospital. They should have kept him and bought a safer helicopter instead…

EDDS - Stuttgart

My instructor in the US who is a very accomplished fixed and rotary pilot will not get in a Robinson and also says he will no longer teach ab initio helicopters as autorotation is just too dangerous to teach ie risk of training far exceeds benefit.

EGTK Oxford

Here’s owner Theodore Wright’s view on owning the Eclipse 500 posted over at Beech Talk – the good and the bad:

Many of you have asked me about my experience flying the Eclipse 500. You can find some random posts I made in various threads whenever it would come up. I thought I would put up one thread here that detailed my entrance, my operating experiences, and finally (now) my exit.

While I have been familiar with the Eclipse since the first deliveries, I thought that I could not afford to own and operate a jet. When I was presented the opportunity to go on a demo flight, I went thinking it would be a fun thing to do but that nothing would come of it. Well, I instantly fell in love with the aircraft. I knew I couldn’t afford a fully upgraded plane, but the original configuration fit the bill for me and could be acquired much cheaper. I found the right deal on one and immediately signed up for the type rating school. I chose to do it in aircraft with Casey Jones (Vietnam A4 pilot and also former Commander of the Blue Angels). I had an absolute blast doing the type rating with him.

I flew this original configuration jet for some time, and although the pilot workload is very high and you need to stay out of icing conditions, I never once had to cancel a trip. This included ski trips and lots of hops to the northeast. There was a lot of handflying and just overall ‘real piloting.’ You can’t sit up front in a 1.0 and push buttons to have the plane fly you to your destination. Owners of the ‘upgraded’ Eclipse called this ‘dangerous.’ I consider them ‘dangerous’ riding around in an airplane that they don’t possess the skills to actually fly should the need ever arise.

Still, I lusted after an upgraded plane. Mostly to have the speed and range increases. Sure, FIKI, a real autopilot that doesn’t kick off all the time, wx radar, traffic, and gps were also nice. So, when a good opportunity presented itself on a 1.5, I made the move. I believe the 1.5/1.7 (basically the same) are the best version of the Eclipse out there. Their single point iFMS is goofy and idiosyncratic. Give me trusted dual Garmin 400s any day!

Between both aircraft, I have flown over 300 hours. (That’s a lot of miles at 330 knots!) That includes several trips back and forth between the USA and Europe (where I currently am.) I have flown with an Eclipse jet to all 4 corners of the USA, Central America, all over Europe, and a couple trips to Northern Africa. In all of these hours in all of these places, I only experienced a handful of minor squawks. Not once was either aircraft ever AOG (although one time I flew it on an ‘almost’ flat strut when it technically should have been AOG). The Eclipse in any configuration is a very reliable aircraft.

Now, is the jet perfect? Absolutely not. Just like we love the Beechcrafts we fly, we recognize that every aircraft has shortcomings. You will often seen them voiced and discussed here. A similar forum exists for Eclipse Owners, but you are not allowed to post anything negative about the aircraft nor the company, or you will be banned from the club (as I have been!). My warning to anyone interested in an Eclipse and reading that board, everything is EXTREMELY one sided and does not represent a global view of the owners. I stay in regular contact with about two dozen owners who feel the same way I do. (keep in mind there are only ~230 jets flying, that’s 10% of the fleet!) Be careful when doing your due diligence.

What’s the problem with the company? Eclipse Aerospace is attempting to control everything with the aircraft, in the interest of ‘safety.’ For instance, our tires are Michelin Aviators which can be purchased from Aircraft Spruce (where do you think I got mine from?), but EAI’s position is that even though it is the same Michelin part number, because they did not receive paperwork with an Eclipse part number, they are therefore not legal. The tires are $350 each from Aircraft Spruce but $900 from Eclipse. EAI has signed exclusivity agreements with the companies who produce sub components to not allow them to sell to anyone except EAI. For instance, before EAI stepped in and bought the bankrupt assets for $.05 on the dollar, one could have their brakes exchanged directly through Parker for $4,000. The current price from EAI is $12,000. Parker will not (can not legally) even talk to you. There was another case where I needed a trim servo repaired. Eclipse wanted $15,000 to exchange (only option). The servo is made by a well known company, but they wouldn’t talk to me due to the agreements EAI puts in place. I eventually talked the gentleman into overhauling it (off the record, of course). The cost of this repair was $465. Furthermore, their CEO tells people that it is illegal to put a used part on your aircraft, even if it is yellow tagged by a service station. He even went so far as to say that the airplane’s software will ‘reject’ a used part such as a pressurization outflow valve. I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is not true, since my outflow valve came off the 1 out of 3 aircraft which have been parted to date. EAI just does not understand the concept of personal property. It is like they give you a ‘license’ to operate the jet as they see fit (and in return you give them a license to charge you whatever they want) You never truly own the thing. I believe these business practices will ultimately lead to their failure.

One more word of warning for anyone considering buying one of these is that according to EAI, they all turn into pumpkins on their 10th birthday, which is approaching, unless you comply with their ‘Life Extension Program.’ This must be accomplished by this July. A couple of the prerequisites for the aircraft to be eligible is that you MUST have had all of your maintenance done by EAI. If you didn’t, then you have to do a ($100k) 48 month inspection with them. Also, any (FAA approved and 100% legal) third party STCs which have been installed make your aircraft ineligible.

I flew over 300 hours in less than 18 months and my all in cost was right around $300,000. (This includes fuel, insurance, losses or gains on aircraft, maintenance, eurocontrol fees, landing fees, ramp fees, database updates, pilot training, hangar, etc.) Would I do it all again? Absolutely! There is nothing like flying on top of everything by yourself at FL410. :pilot:

So, I am currently sitting in the South of France and within the next couple weeks I will fly my Eclipse from here to it’s new owner in Nevada. He is a prior Eclipse owner and is very familiar with everything I mentioned above (otherwise I would have have sold it to him). When he sold his last Eclipse, it was due to these problems and overall attitude of the company. I wanted to ask him why he is going back into one, but I know the answer. These are great little planes to fly and almost as addictive as cocaine. For now I am going to operate my L-39 as a personal jet. That will mean no hops to Europe, only carrying 1 passenger, staying out of most weather, and burning a ton of gas, but look at the smile on my face! :D

I have been casually shopping Legacy Citations looking for the right deal on one, though I really have no idea what I will do next. Perhaps there will be another Eclipse in my hangar one day …

Until then, à bientôt.
Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 17 Feb 05:22

EAI has signed exclusivity agreements with the companies who produce sub components to not allow them to sell to anyone except EAI.

I wonder how they did that. Normally you need to “promise” a reasonable volume for that.

Socata did the same with their French suppliers, though I don’t know if that was ever done formally or whether the suppliers just do it out of loyalty, to another French company. For example the reply from Spiragaine is

We can not directly sell this type of hose.
The number P / N 00021977-02 correspond to an order for our customer SOCATA
(aircraft manufacturer) and we can not sell this product to another
customer.
Thank you kindly contact SOCATA you for providing this hose.

Is this legal in the USA? I don’t think it is legal in Europe.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I don’t think it is legal in Europe.

Why not? Which law text would prevent that?

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