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Elstree EGTR to Bex LSGB, Switzerland this weekend - getting through France

Even if the military is active, French ATC will often clear you through somehow or hand you over to some military ATC. The people from Bâle Info/Approach are great, so don’t worry.

In Switzerland, things are different. Transit through airspace C is often difficult and restricted areas (LS-R) are often more like prohibited areas, just like in Germany. Geneva Information gives good airspace and traffic information, but they won’t give you any clearance. In case you need CAS transit, just ask the appropriate ATC unit by yourself. This is faster and easier as coordination with Geneva Information.

I forgot to mention in my last post that Bex is FR-only, so be aware of that. There is a Swiss rule saying English is always allowed, however, Bex doesn’t have an English accreditation (see VFR Guide COM 2-APP1), so other pilots might not understand you.

Last Edited by Frans at 06 Aug 11:38
Switzerland

For the military area just ask FIS if it is active.
I went trough this weekend for my trip EBNM – LFLI (trip report to follow) it was not active and no issue to go through.
Military are normally closed in weekends as well.
Hope this helps.

jfw
Belgium: EBGB (Grimbergen, Brussels) - EBNM (Namur), Belgium

Unblonde, definitely do not worry.
Seine TMA is class E indeed so no need to get a clearance but you will receive very good FIS (like a trafic service) with them.
Those military areas are marked active every day but they are not (like the Chanel DAs). They can be activated at any time, but the times are given separately. I have an Activity information menu in SD (I guess you do too), which sends you to charts showing the active areas for each 4hr slot. Anyway, they are never active on weekends and Seine/Bale FIS will know. If they don’t tell you they are active, they probably are not. Of course you may ask for confirmation (it is relaxing).

LFOU, France

Peter wrote:

Only on weekends and only if the sun is out
I went there on Saturday, landing 1000 UTC, and there was loads of room

Yes, from the types on that apron it does not look like Lizard flying style to LFAT

Something like this is my favourite when sun comes out:

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

As a follow-up, would anyone recommend anyone at Bex for some mountain training / flightseeing. I’ve done a little, but would feel better (and probably see some better places with a pro next to me!)

Looking at the Simplon pass to Lugano (or Locarno) for a day trip. A smaller gafor route from Bex to Saanen as ‘training’, and then hopefully flying myself (solo with wife) to Innsbruck for an overnight (which I’ll ask about separately)

Thanks

Alex

Elstree , United Kingdom

Thanks all for the advice. Very much appreciated. I think i’ll amend the plan to stop at LFAQ on the way – i pass overhead anyway, so why not. My wife thanks you in advance. It’s a tiny bit further, and avoids LFAT which is a regular logbook occurrence.

I assume Seine TMA (class E) is fine to fly through without a clearance (even with the TMA and the NOTAMs presently saying it is active). Obviously, I’ll talk to someone, but just wanted to confirm my understanding that they can’t turn me down.

I was looking for details of LFR158A or B which are marked as active every day. I did find this, which when translated seems to suggest that you’re normally fine, but it’s possible to get utterly stuck if everything is active!

Last Edited by Unblonde at 05 Aug 21:53
Elstree , United Kingdom

around 11am LFAT does get invaded

Only on weekends and only if the sun is out

I went there on Saturday, landing 1000 UTC, and there was loads of room

They have tons of tarmac.

The beach was packed (French holiday) but we aren’t talking about that.

LFAT is the best place on the N French coast for clearing schengen – if it is reasonably on the route. You walk in, pay and walk out again. Cherbourg is cheaper (€12 v. €30 for LFAT) but that’s barely relevant and you have to give previous day’s PNR. Deauville LFRG is also PNR but the AIP doesn’t say how far back.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

TimR wrote:

I find it best to clear customs as early as possible (i.e. LFAT). You can be in & out within 20 mins

If going VFR, by the time LTMA starts to go up you start to have LFAT & LFAC in sight

Unlike other places in middle of France, you can can be in & out in less than 5min via L2K or Calais if you have more legs to go!

Also, assuming VFR once you cleared customs then you are almost direct anywhere in France at 5500-7500ft except around PTMA if you are in a hurry or if you are relaxed just fly low and stop anywhere you like in France when you see something interesting or have doubts on your special pax

Be aware, around 11am LFAT does get invaded mainly by people who have the whole weekend a 1h flight duration (I enjoy taking my time when I am in that group but I don’t think you want to be number 2 )

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

As @Raiz mentioned – Bex is only usable for Intra-Schengen flights. So you can use it from France, but not from the UK. Before flying to Bex, a customs form needs to be filled out 2h before ETA on their website, but not before 24h ETA. In any case, you need also PPR 24h before ETA via their website, so you need 2 forms (customs and PPR)! The airfield is open daily from SR up to SS.

In contrast to France, Swiss ATC normally doesn’t grant access to the Geneva TMA for VFR traffic, so be prepared to go below the Geneva TMA, which can be tricky if clouds block your way over the Jura mountains. Crossing Payerne CTR or TMA is no issue though, the Swiss military will clear you trough.

Last Edited by Frans at 05 Aug 14:16
Switzerland

Use this website to help you plan around military areas. They are normally off on weekends. If you then go here and go to 2.5.1 you can CTRL+F all the danger/restricted areas in question and find out if you are likely to get through them or not. You will find that the ones around Paris are a 24/7 no-go for VFR traffic. Yes, this a pretty tedious process and you could just do it via the radio en-route but just giving you the comprehensive approach

With “high-risk” passengers like that I find it best to clear customs as early as possible (i.e. LFAT). You can be in & out within 20 mins. This gives you the option of landing at any of the many small airports in France without having to worry about a potential Police intervention.

EGSX
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