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Engine failure - which immediate action?

Noe wrote:

I’d be curious to know from our airline pilots in what situations they think about this sort of eventuality (take off / landing / cruise / cruise over himallayas). Of course, as the altitude is higher, that sort of thinking is much less urgent.

Double engine failure is not part of the training syllabus. Apparently the simulators do not have the appropriate data. Also, “negative training” is to be avoided – at least that is what the big boys want. I disagree with that but doubt that anything will change (probability vs. cost). Dead sticks and ditchings could be researched and best practice procedures established and trained.

I do think about it and spot locations mostly during cruise. There are many suitable flat surfaces (dry salt lakes), very long stretches of highways with little traffic (silk road) and quite a few airports that would work but are not part of the route manual (no charts/info). Over high terrain you’re best bet is one of the huge flat plains/glaciers (slim chance of survival nonetheless).

For take off and landing (US1549) scenarios I believe your best bet is to go somewhere with minimum obstacles and touch down as controlled as possible to limit impact energy.

I think the Xavion App has a lot of potential. Coupled to the relevant data sources and the autoflight system it helps to free up workload in order to troubleshoot and restart the engines while underway to a place for the worst case.

CB IR Instruction
LOWG, LOWW

Snoopy wrote:

Double engine failure is not part of the training syllabus

I’m doing double-engine failure in the 787 sim on Saturday. (I’m on conversion.) Apparently you can plug in the autopilot and it will complete a power-off autoland from 220 kt/10 nm/3,000 ft.

In my SEP I’m always looking for fields and have one box on “nearest airfield”.

Spending too long online
EGTF Fairoaks, EGLL Heathrow, United Kingdom

I’m doing double-engine failure in the 787 sim on Saturday. (I’m on conversion.) Apparently you can plug in the autopilot and it will complete a power-off autoland from 220 kt/10 nm/3,000 ft.

Do you have to achieve those 3 parameters manually?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I always have Skydemon dynamic gliding range circle showing….which allows for wind and terrain …and I use a slightly conservative glide ratio of 1:11….and I keep an eye on available airports in that range….I often bring up the airfield info on target strips do I know their length, orientation and elevation..

In terms of first action, fortunately I’ve never had a sudden engine failure, but I would turn towards my target and then run the FCMIT – Fuel, Carb heat (if applicable), Mixture rich, Ignition and Throttle….then attempt a restart if appropriate…

EGPD / OMDW / YPJT, United Kingdom

In addition to all the things already mentioned here’s another action to consider, which an old-hand taught me during my PPL, in case of sufficient altitude and considerable wind:
While the first thing you do is look for a field, you also turn downwind. The greater distance covered over the ground increases the number of viable landing sites. Plus it gives you that familiar picture of flying a circuit pattern where (hopefully) you’ll find a site to your left or right and you can turn base and final in the way you are used to (well, a bit higher obviously without engine power).

Last Edited by aart at 15 Sep 17:13
Private field, Mallorca, Spain

Glide range is a circle only in zero wind.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

chrisparker wrote:

Snoopy wrote:
Double engine failure is not part of the training syllabus
I’m doing double-engine failure in the 787 sim on Saturday. (I’m on conversion.)

I assume it was asked for post-AWE1549.

EGTK Oxford

Peter wrote:

Glide range is a circle only in zero wind.

Indeed….that’s the nice thing about SD….the “circle” is deformed according to the wind and according to the terrain elevations….it uses the forecast winds aloft as downloaded automatically prior to the flight and will update in the air occasionally if a GSM signal is available…

EGPD / OMDW / YPJT, United Kingdom

EGPD / OMDW / YPJT, United Kingdom

chrisparker wrote:

I’m doing double-engine failure in the 787 sim on Saturday. (I’m on conversion.) Apparently you can plug in the autopilot and it will complete a power-off autoland from 220 kt/10 nm/3,000 ft.

When I went to sim centres for the CE525 they sometimes did some unusual things for interest if the syllabus is covered and there’s time. One of them was a dual engine failure on the climb out at about 1500 feet. It was possible to manoeuvre for a landing back on the runway. Another one was a dual failure at FL100 directlyy over a big airfield. Obviously in that circumstance you have no flaps or speed brakes, and the undercarriage has to be blown down. I startled the instructor a little with the sideslip. It works though, one of the benefits of an easy to fly straight wing aircraft.

Wouldn’t fancy either exercise for real.

Last Edited by Neil at 15 Sep 19:24
Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)
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