Estimated value of my aircraft

RobertL18C wrote:

The real practical classics are the Aeronca Chief, Luscombe 8E, and Vagabond. Very cheap to maintain and can live in a farm strip.

An Auster with an O-320 (or Beagle Husky, basically the Autocrat with the O-320 and the dorsal fin addition is pretty close to the later Beagle Husky) is also just as practical and has excellent short field performance :-) The original Gipsy engine is of course nice for “being classic” sake, but the Lycoming is I feel just a lot more practical (a previous owner of the aircraft I now have once sent an email saying ‘nice to see the aircraft still flying, pity it has been converted to Lycoming because it rather spoils the lines’ – I was going to write back and tell him about our plans for the glass cockpit to really shock him – we were actually considering it at one point!!). Austers also have a good type club and getting parts hasn’t been a problem.

Also when looking at practical classics, don’t rule out the Cessna 120/140. Both are straightforward, well mannered, look nice, and aren’t hard to keep maintained. I had a half share in a C140 for a couple of years, and flew it coast-to-coast in the USA (which is quite a long trip in something that does 85 knots on a good day). Flying with the C85 engine in the Rockies was a challenge, and soaring knowledge came in very useful!

alioth I echo Silvaire, Austers are very cool, and a Gypsy Major is probably worth £20k so your Autocrat is a reasonable premium to this. The AOP 9 has wonderful ramp presence, and shows what the Brits could produce when asked to design an artillery observer.

http://www.pixstel.com/auster-aop-9-g-bdfh_urlb3144.php

The Super Cub 90 only command around £25-30k on a good day. A well presented -150 might be £40-50k, but Europe isn’t in the cult status of the USA where a reconditioned L21B with Alaska mods might go for $150-200k. Recall that an L21B is a 60 year old airframe.

The real practical classics are the Aeronca Chief, Luscombe 8E, and Vagabond. Very cheap to maintain and can live in a farm strip.

Silvaire wrote:

I can think of two areas where the two types aren’t equivalent: you can buy pretty much every single part for a Super Cub off the shelf, and the Auster has no FAA type certificate, making it valueless to most of the world’s utility aircraft buyers.

Does the Auster still have any commonality with its Taylorcraft cousins?

alioth wrote:

The difference is that the Super Cub is in high demand despite being no more capable and in other respects being pretty much equivalent to an Autocrat that’s been converted to a Lycoming.

I can think of two areas where the two types aren’t equivalent: you can buy pretty much every single part for a Super Cub off the shelf, and the Auster has no FAA type certificate, making it valueless to most of the world’s utility aircraft buyers. As an enthusiast for oddball types with merit I say just enjoy being in a niche that allows you to benefit from the comparative market values. It’s really a great way to go, and the Auster is cool.

I think the biggest issue for the Traveler is the funky tail construction that was cleaned up for later variants… but that’s not a big deal and it makes them a bargain.

You can also try Aircraftbluebook.com for prices and trends.

Scenic_Flyer wrote:

Well it was airworthy before that work was done. And I appreciate that people are looking for these types of avionics but I’m seeing kit a/c with none of these things for sale for like 30k… crazy right?! But yes, maybe 25k is a bit much for mine, you’re right.

You can only sell it for what the market will bear. The market will bear a higher price for many kit aircraft, especially ones with good capabilities.

Consider my Auster, it’s got the same capabilities as a 160hp Super Cub (with side by side seating which people often find more desirable than the tandem arrangement of a Super Cub), conveniences such as disc brakes instead of the awful old drum brakes, 8.33 radio etc., reasonably new fabric. If I tried to sell it now, I’d be overjoyed to get £20k. A quick search on the internet for a 160hp Super Cub for sale showed they are going for around 75k EUR (or about £60k). Three times the price for an aircraft which is really no better. The difference is that the Super Cub is in high demand despite being no more capable and in other respects being pretty much equivalent to an Autocrat that’s been converted to a Lycoming. The Super Cub, like a Harley Davidson, is fashionable so it commands a premium. My aircraft is not fashionable, and unfortunately the Grumman Traveller isn’t either (although it’s a fine aircraft, I’d take one over an equivalent Cherokee or Cessna any day, but I’m unusual in this respect!)

The other factor is – at least for me personally, and perhaps for others who would entertain buying a non-EASA aircraft – is that I wouldn’t touch an EASA type without modern avionics with a barge pole. I don’t want the hassle of dealing with avionics shops and approved organizations however cheap it may be. But a permit aircraft that needs an 8.33 radio, well, I can do the installation myself and have an LAA inspector inspect and sign it off which – for me – is vastly less of a headache. I’d much rather do the work myself than have all the headache of dealing with and chasing organizations.

I have recently sold a couple of older planes and is currently in the market for an IFR tourer (sorry, neither an AA5 nor Beech).

I agree that a lot of the people coming out to look are time wasters and some surprisingly so (as in a couple driving for hours and didn’t even want to look inside….took one look and waled away….it honestly look pristine). You however newer know who is genuine and who is not. I bet that a number of the people who decline to move forward could and would have bought had it not been for better options out there (better fit, better price, different colour, whatever). I would though say that the longer the initial email and the more “history” the more serious they seem to me.

Now….as a buyer I am equally surprised by the attitude of some sellers. I normally make sure to say a little about my flying background, reason for looking for a new plane, etc., and I am really surprised by the number of people who never respond to the initial email…even some brokers! I have also come across sellers who asked me to pay all cost related to a test flight (fair enough), plus an hourly charge of several hundred pounds for their trouble. I have taken many people for free flights just because they liked the plane I had, so needless to say that I move on.

I guess the best advise I can give you is to treat everyone seriously and accept that you will have to kiss many frogs. It is not a sellers market, I’m afraid, except from a few marks that seem to get sold (Cirrus at the right price to be specific)

Scenic_Flyer wrote:

OK, so basically I was just wondering if anyone could give me a rough estimate of the value of my 1972 Grumman AA5 Traveler. It has only around 1500 engine and 4500 air frame hours on it. It has a good instrument cluster, with a DME, mode C transponder, ADF, CDI (with G/S… however it’s not very accurate – not recommended for IMC ILS), original auto level function, multi frequency radio stack, etc.

Hello Scenic Flyer.

Difficult to say with this kind of information. To sell your airplane sucessfully, you´d have to make up a good ad, on planecheck or elsewhere, and put the information in there which a buyer needs. There is quite a lot of it:

Airplane time since new (ok, you sa that, 4500 hrs).
Engine time since new or overhauled (ok, 1500 hrs you say), then time of the last overhaul or how old the engine is since new. 150 hp or 160?
Prop time since new or overhauled.
Keep a sheet with the repetitive items close so when a buyer asks for when were the hoses redone, when the magnetoes overhauled, e.t.c. you know and can say.

Avionic: It is not anywhere near enough to simply add a “good instument cluster” but you will need to put a proper list together, the exact type of each box built in. Then add a good panel picture, maybe several. Educate yourself about your plane and it´s equipment. When someone calls, have all the answers ready.

Mode S is almost a must. Depending on the Transponder you have, it may well be a good idea to upgrade to a TT31 or similar, the cost is minimal but then it is a “ready to fly” plane as opposed to one which has to be upgraded first. First buyers will like a ready to fly plane, not a project. 8.33 is not such an issue just yet but it will be in 2017.

Personally I feel information about the last annuals costing +6000 etc are scaring away people bloody fast. What is good information is how much the last 5-6 annuals cost in average, new buyers will want to know that. If they see “6000 invested in last annual” they run fast and far as they fear it will be like this every year….

Interior, exterior, same thing. And add pics, plenty of them.

Price:

The Traveller is the first of the AA5 airplanes. As some said here, it´s a good starter airplane which has a decent speed of about 120 kts and reasonabe payload of around 260 kgs with full fuel but is short on range of around 400 NM as compared to the AA5A Cheetah. It does not have the Cheetah´s speed mods. Other than that, a robust, nice first plane for someone to get their first flights. The fuel load of 37 USG corresponds to some Cessna 172 models, yet the Traveller is slightly faster than similarly equipped 172´s and PA28, which are slower.

A well equipped and kept Traveller will fetch between 25-35k Euros, depending very much on the details lined out above. IF you want a more practical valuation, you need to supply more information.

Generally: Do your homework, present a good, complete, well thought through ad with a realistic price, and you will sell pretty fast. If you want help, you can get it here.

The Traveller is a lovely first plane and you should not have too much problems selling it. I almost bought one in 2008, when a French Traveller was on the market for 16000 Euros but I never got to see it, it did not last longer than 2 weeks on planecheck.

May I ask why you want to sell?