Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

European IFR without oxygen, and Eurocontrol routings generally

I continue to be suprised at how many IR holders and high performance aircraft owners still appear to limit themselves to FL100 or very slightly more.

Is oxygen regarded as too much of a hassle?

In the USA it is a bit different because they don't have the Eurocontrol system and high CAS bases, so IFR can operate there at lower levels - subject mainly to MEAs etc dictated by terrain and maybe the MRA. So Europe has an issue in that "proper IFR" largely needs oxygen even if there is no weather. But oxygen remains vital for weather avoidance.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I fly IFR at 5000ft at times. Which countries prohibit IFR below oxygen levels?

I mean Eurocontrol routings.

I can fly IFR at 501ft in the UK, non radio

You won't get very far in the UK, or France for that matter, at 5000ft, on a Eurocontrol flight plan.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I do find it too much of a hassle. I usually plan for FL90/FL100 and will ask for FL110/FL120 to avoid icing if necessary (I don't have de-icing), I will only use my O2 set above these levels. I have a good lightweight MH cylinder with an EDS but its awkward to don in flight in a cramped cockpit, I don't wear it routinely because there was no intention to fly high. I've had this O2 set for some years and still have the original O2 charge. Having it on board is useful in case anyone decides to check after a high flight.

In use I find it difficult to space my breathing and I often set off the apnea alarm, also I don't feel much different with, or without, O2 at up to FL120. I have an oximeter and find my blood O2 levels stay reasonable up to FL120. Pilots physical reaction to non-O2 flight does seem to vary considerably.

In non-convective cloud in Europe I find that ice accretion is often very slow at FL100+. Two weeks ago I spent 3hrs IMC in AS at FL110 without collecting enough ice to significantly affect performance. So rather than plan for high O2 flight I will accept the possible icing risk and deal with any problems if they arise.

I think if I had to use oxygen from a mask or cannula, and my family did, it would really make me think twice about high altitude IFR. My family certainly.

EGTK Oxford

You won't get very far in the UK, or France for that matter, at 5000ft, on a Eurocontrol flight plan.

Apart from crossing some mountains (in the Alps the the lowest MEA is at FL140 for example) I see no reason why one could not fly IFR at FL70 or 90 all across continental Europe. I have done it extensively until a few years ago when flying cargo in an unpressurised Cessna 404. The oxygen cylinder used to be empty after the first leg and from then on we flew below FL120 until we could get a refill. From Lisbon to Gothenburg and from Tripoli (Lybia) to Aberdeen. There are some big military areas in France that can not be crossed or overflown at these levels, but apart from that our routings were never far away from the great circle.

BTW: It is not Eurocontrol who sets the MEAs for airways but the national authorities.

EDDS - Stuttgart

I don't disagree, but there is the general issue that MEAs on the Eurocontrol routes are determined (except the Alps - as you note) by the base of CAS, and by the desire to keep enroute traffic away from terminal areas (e.g. Paris cannot be crossed below FL200, Frankfurt below FL120/130).

So yes you can fly around, especially in France (Class E FL~065 to FL115) and Germany, at say FL090, but you end up going around a lot of stuff.

Oxygen is certainly a hassle with passengers who are "non aviation interested". But I tend to not take those types anyway on long trips because it's very difficult to make it clear that in light GA the flight might not go to plan, and who will pay for the return airline tickets?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

So yes you can fly around, especially in France (Class E FL~065 to FL115) and Germany, at say FL090, but you end up going around a lot of stuff.

I just had a look at the route map. Here in Germany (especially in the north where terrain is not a factor) you can get almost anywhere IFR at 5000ft without much detour. You will have to stay away from Frankfurt maybe 50NM (or cross at FL120 which can just be done legally without oxygen) but there exist low level IFR routes into Frankfurt that require only 5000ft (e.g. via "BOMBI" point) - there is still a lot of unpressurised cargo flying going on.

EDDS - Stuttgart

Oxygen is certainly a hassle with passengers who are "non aviation interested". But I tend to not take those types anyway on long trips because it's very difficult to make it clear that in light GA the flight might not go to plan, and who will pay for the return airline tickets?

I find it a PITA as well. And as, if I have passengers, I am almost always flying with my family, I am always paying.....

EGTK Oxford

Jason - do you still need to wear cannulas in your aircraft? I assumed the built in pressurisation and or oxygen system in your aircraft meant you would be able to fly at altitudes without.

54 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top