Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

European touring patterns

Following on from here I wondered about the reasons why one sees these general patterns.

Those in the north of Europe (say, Sweden, Finland, Norway) rarely travel south, partly due to the distances involved and partly due to most activity being aeroclub oriented and it is hard to rent a plane for a few days or more. Most touring is done by a small band of owners. Same for Ireland and that one is mostly due to the distance to get anywhere. ELP is not an issue; all these speak good English.

Those in the south (Slovenia, Croatia and more south) rarely travel north because why would they? They have the climate and they have the scenery Greek GA is also rather short of funding… ELP is also not an issue.

Spain and Portugal have relatively little GA, they have a long way to go anywhere (apart from France) and ELP is a big issue.

France has a lot to fly to just within France, have traditionally done holidays within France, and ELP is a big issue.

Italy has a GA scene similar to Spain, and it has comprehensively moved to ultralights which don’t lend themselves to long distances. It also has plenty of scenery to offer all within Italy. They can pop over to Croatia easily but few seem to… ELP is probably a significant issue.

That leaves the countries whose pilots do a fair bit of touring: e.g. UK, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, etc. These have good ELP, plenty of money so plenty of owners, and plenty of airfield infrastructure to keep it all going.

But even within the UK there are big differences. Those in the north do a lot less European mainland stuff because they have a lot further to go just to get to the Channel. And similarly few pilots from say Germany will go to west France; France is a big place.

What can one generalise mostly?

Touring correlates heavily with ELP. It correlates with having good places to fly to. It may also correlate with wealth but even the “poorest” countries have some very wealthy people.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Coming from north(Estonia), I would say that the main reasons why I don’t fly more to south is the fact that it takes signnificant time (and money). My last year trip to Croatia was 20+ flight hours on Piper, maybe 15h on some faster plane.Meaning 4-5K on rental costs alone. And realistically, at least a week. Getting the plane is not too hard if you plan ahead. Most our pilots are quite busy people and getting a free week for flying might be the hardest part. And then there are alternatives-central europe is nice with alps and sea, but also 30C in summer.. I actually don’t enjoy superheated planes too much. At the same time there are million small airfields in finland ,sweden and norway, and summer is just the time to visit them..

EETU, Estonia

Its pretty simple really. All flying is about Time and Money. The nuances of English for touring skew things, but its still basicly time and money.
The last two years have really brought it home to me. I had lots of time available such that when rules allowed I had lots of time to allow touring, because I couldnt work. But not working means no income, so I could not justify spending lots of money on flying long distances touring, because what will I do about putting food on the table when my saved money runs out? Now Im back working and getting ahead money wise, Im too busy to be able to take the time required to go touring!!

It doesnt matter how you break it down talking ELP, IR or VFR, owner or renter/club. You need the money to pay for those things and time to do it too.

Regards, SD..

ivark wrote:

Coming from north(Estonia), I would say that the main reasons why I don’t fly more to south is the fact that it takes signnificant time (and money).

I’d say the situation in (most of) Sweden is similar to that in Estonia. Even if you rent it is usually not a problem to get an aircraft for a week if you plan ahead. E.g. in my club right now you can get an aircraft for a week basically any time from mid-May on.

As ivark writes, distances are a bigger problem. If you live in the Stockholm/Lake Mälaren area, which I do (with about 40% of the Swedish population), going south in a PA28/C172 type aircraft in zero wind will take more than 2:30 hrs before you even leave the country. Friedrichshafen is about 7:30 hrs one way plus refueling stops. Even in a TB20 it would take more than 5 hours.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

“Touring” (however one defines it in detail). Is always about getting somewhere. There is basically just the ABC in Europe to get to (Alps, Beaches and Cities).

As we have an excellent rail network in most parts of Europe, the train is most often the much better choice if you want to do the “C” – that leaves A and B for GA touring.

The Nordics have the B by themself (at least the “cold B” but the “warm B” are out of range) and the A is out of range. Therefore little touring.
The Southerns also have the B by themselves (even the warm B) and most of them have mountains that can substitute the A.
The Western as well have B by themselves and the A are only within range for the English.
The centrals (esp Germans) are the only ones where both A and B are within range and therefore they might travel most.

Having said that: Even for Germans, Swiss and Austrians only a tiny minority of pilots do actually do “touring” – esp. if you include “staying over night away from home base” into your definition of touring…

Germany

First I would say you should get some real data before seeing “general patterns”.

ivark wrote:

At the same time there are million small airfields in finland ,sweden and norway, and summer is just the time to visit them..

I think this says a lot. The urge to go anywhere else simply is not very great. We have lots of space, huge areas, lots of fields, simple airspace that is perfect for VFR (or IFR for that matter), nice and helpful ATC all over (Germany included). Why would we go to places were private GA, VFR in particular, is a hassle? I bet the French feel the same way.

A nice flying day here is to have no plans, you simply go to a nearby strip. There you meet one or two others, talk a bit, then head off in lose (or close ) formation to a third field. Drink some coffee, eat some waffles, talk about flying and aircraft. A few others arrive, some leave for other fields or go back home. Maybe try a field you haven’t flown to before and so on. All kinds of pilots, some are professionals flying Boeings, F-35s or whatnot, most are hobbyists with simple PPL/UL licenses. Out there no one cares. The purpose is to have a great time.

This is the typical “grass root” flying going on in Norway. I would say it is what 70-80 % of pilots do. A bunch of guys enjoying their hobby, and everybody is welcome no matter what kind of fleet of aircraft you have (some of the guys have simple STOL SEPs as well as turbine helicopters and King Airs in their hangars). Or you could use the entire day instructing or towing gliders, fly some aerobatics

Then there is time and money and the amount of up front effort and planning just to sit for hours flying on autopilot. It’s not for me. This season will be used to hone my STOL/bush skills in my Savannah Not much planning needed, don’t takes days and nights and doesn’t cost much.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

We have lots of space, huge areas, lots of fields, simple airspace that is perfect for VFR (or IFR for that matter), nice and helpful ATC all over

Quite the opposite around here
The country I’m based in is so minute that the longest possible field to field straight line flight is from the Northeast, Altenrhein, to the Southwest, Geneva, and takes the whole of 1.5 hour flying time to do…
So I’ll keep bumping into neighboring borders lest I jump them 🤓 Gotta find a way to push down on them Alps, flatten them out sure would give us more space…

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

There’s also the fact that the typical C172/PA28/DR400 is not very comfortable past a couple hours. It’s one of the reasons I bought the TB, which I can sit in for 4 hours without the fatigue of a GA spam can. In NL clubs it’s very hard to get a long term rental due to availability. I’ve been a member of 3 clubs, and none of them allowed for long trips even if you could find an available airplane (which you generally cannot). If you’re VFR only it can be difficult to plan and execute a longer flight if you have to book in advance. There’s a lot of luck involved.

EHRD, Netherlands

We had a long debate about aeroclubs holding back GA and while the idea was often strongly disputed, it seems to be generally true that accessibility to GA for short flights is being achieved at the expense of going anywhere further.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

If people are flying how is that holding back GA?

France
35 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top