What is the minimum possible number of sittings, for all 14 exams?
I seem to recall seeing a figure of 3 or 4. But that sounds pretty tight. I did the 7 IR exams in 2 sittings (2 days).
What is the minimum possible number of sittings, for all 14 exams?
It probably varies between national CAAs. For example, the Czech CAA makes you choose the subjects in advance, and will only book you so that the maximum time allotted for all the subjects chosen would not exceed the duration of the morning or afternoon session. If you finish a 2-hour test in 10 minutes, you cannot take an extra subject in the remaining time unless you had booked it beforehand.
The UK CAA has introduced an “e-exam” scheme for professional theory exams (ATPL, CPL, IR), whereby applications are made online and the exams themselves are taken on a computer. I believe this is a bit like the lasergrade scheme in the US, but without the option to just walk-in and take them on the spot. You have to register, be approved, apply for an exam, be approved, have your ground training ATO validate that you have taken the training course, then turn up and sit it with the appropriate ID. You probably have to wait 3 weeks for the result by post (but I don’t know that’s the case).
Good news is that the number of venues for these exams is growing, so IR candidates won’t have to travel to Gatwick. Dates should also become more frequent.
Some details of the scheme in this recent CAA note
Within that document:
Venues and Venue Information
5.1 The CAA is working closely with ATO’s to establish new e-Exam venues; some ATOs will have an onsite e-Exams capability, others will continue to use CAA open venues. The CAA’s Aviation House examination venue will operate as an open venue with increased examining days and seat availability. Other UK open venues will be:
• Oxford Airport
• Southampton
• Luton
• Leicester
• Perth,ScotlandLimitations apply in respect of seating capacity at venues.
5.2 UK venue requirements will be reviewed on an annual basis with additional locations under consideration as required
—
It’s unclear to me if candidates are given the results immediately after taking the test (as in the US) or whether there will continue to be the usual 3 week wait for a letter in the post.
I believe that it is intended that the CB-IR exams would be introduced using this same e-exam system from the outset, but that’s not mentioned in the document.
This is a step in the right direction – for example my nearest test centre would be 1:30 hour drive away instead of 2:30 – but still quite a large gap between the ease and accessibility of knowledge testing the US, which is available almost everywhere, on-demand, with instant results.
I’m surprised that some EASA countries doesn’t have a similar electronic testing system as in Sweden.
When you have passed the FTO Ground school exam in a subject. It is logged in the Swedish CAA database by the teacher. You are also given a student login for the CAA-testing system.
Then you make an appointment with a authorized testing center and tell how long you would like to sit. Our local club is an authorized testing center :)
At the testing center you are assigned a computer and you use the assigned CAA student login. When logged in, you can see all subjects you are allowed to test for. You select a subject. Do the test. You will get the result immediately. You will also see a summary and results of all subjects you have done and not done so far. If you fail a subject, you have to do a new test at the school so the teacher can approve you again for the CAA test in that subject.
(I think for for ATPL you have 6 “sittings” (testperiods) within 18 months (from the first sitting). When you start a sitting you have 2 weeks to do a number of tests. For IR i think it is 4 sittings. (i forgot ;) ) )
Jonas
You will get the result immediately.
You’ll get the pass/fail immedeately, but the actual score and the parts of the curriculum covered by failed questions will be sent only to the school.
Anyway, it is a great system.
(I think for for ATPL you have 6 “sittings” (testperiods) within 18 months (from the first sitting). When you start a sitting you have 2 weeks to do a number of tests. For IR i think it is 4 sittings. (i forgot ;) ) )
We had a discussion about “sittings” in some other thread some time ago. Basically, the national authority can determine how long a “sitting” is — up to 10 days. The Swedish Transport Agency has determined that a sitting is 14 days! (The maximum 10, which is considered to be weekdays only, plus two weekends, giving 14 calendar days.)
I called the Swedish Transport Agency to ask for clarification about this and they said that several “major countries” refused to give up their old rules so the EASA rules were written so that everyone could keep going more or less in the same way as before.
Exams: CPL only (13) versus ATPL (14)
The former is valuable purely for instructing towards EASA licenses/ratings (need CPL theory, even if expired).
But if you get an IR later (can be the CB IR) you have a CPL/IR, though it can never be upgraded to an ATPL.
Apart from possibly HP&L, the 13 exams all seem to be reduced versions of the 14 ATPL ones.
There is a huge difference in the mandatory classroom: 250 v. 650 hours but this isn’t reflected in e.g. the CATS (a UK ATO that does distance learning) classroom requirement which is 3 × 4 days, and 3 × 5 days respectively. There is something very strange going on there.
The Q I have is how much less workload is the former versus the latter.
Peter
The hours are for the whole course (inc home study) the different breakdown is up to how the provider has constructed the course under their course approval. You do need some classroom study to embed and get speedy on some of the practical calculation elements in particular.
With advent of CBMIR and CPL exams now up to 13 the CPLs are truly pointless in my opinion. People should just suck up the ATPL which covers the CBMIR as well. I speak as someone who has done both CPL exams (9 then) and the ATPLs!
The workload of ATPL isn’t that much more than CPL in reality (basically perf A and ETOPs type stuff removed) and if you just crack on they are fine. Yes there is a lot of junk, but overall I learnt lots and made some brilliant contacts and friends along the way.
I’m happy to discuss the relative merits of both in more detail if anyone wants! ProPilot at Coventry are superb.
People should just suck up the ATPL which covers the CBMIR as well. I speak as someone who has done both CPL exams (9 then) and the ATPLs!
I am sure that may have been true with the 7 JAA IR exams, but those are now (approximately?) halved under the CB IR, which reduces the value of doing the 14 ATPL exams if you don’t actually need an ATPL.
As I see it, the advantages of the 14 ATPL exams are
Obviously, due to #1 above, anybody who might want a jet job will go for all 14, and that applies to virtually all of the 20 year olds who pile into this game. But somebody who doesn’t?
For me, if I wanted the HPA (I might for the Lancair Evolution TP if IFR etc is ever possible pan-Europe in it) I would use the FAA ATPL exam route which, despite the recent massive hardening of it, is still less work than the 14 ATPL exams. I already have the FAA CPL/IR which is a pre-requisite for sitting that exam.
It would be useful to know how much less work in total the CPL exams alone are, compared to the ATPL exams, assuming one wants just the CPL exam passes and nothing else. My gut feeling is that they might be 50-70% of the work, but I wonder if the ATPL exams contain some tricky stuff in the aircraft performance area. I recall some ATPL cadets (when I was hanging out in a hotel in Bournemouth with a load of them) saying there are batches of a/c perf questions which all go “in series” i.e. you get the 1st wrong and you get the rest wrong.
Peter
You need ATPL TK for any multi pilot type rating, not just left hand seat command.
The other aspect is that the schools are geared up to the ATPL sausage machine so can push you through that system, CPL is a much less slick run through and in my experience you end up doing irrelevant stuff still as the courses are generally just cut down ATPL ones. The question banks are also geared to ATPL.
Could you estimate the % man-hour saving, if somebody wants CPL theory just to instruct?
