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Expansion of UK controlled airspace

James_Chan wrote:

Part-time ATC with part-time AFIS

With part time controlled airspace? I don’t see how that works.

Because of that, I don’t think it’ll cause any new issues with unions if Article 183 is sacrificed.

You don’t think the unions will object to 300-odd ATCOs being told that they can reapply for their jobs at half their previous salaries? I think that’s new.

EGKB Biggin Hill

With part time controlled airspace? … You don’t think the unions will object to 300-odd ATCOs being told that they can reapply for their jobs at half their previous salaries?

There are airports I can think of who’s airspace is only active when they are open. Something slightly different I know, but it does mean the airspace is not active H24. So when closed it reverts to Class G.

I can’t say for each individual person and their unique circumstances, but I’m guessing one would have long moved elsewhere if the only reason for their employment was Article 183. I’ve been told there is a nationwide and even a global shortage of ATCOs? The market is in their favour and the salary scales reflect that?

Last Edited by James_Chan at 29 Nov 13:19

James_Chan wrote:

I’ve been told there is a nationwide and even a global shortage of ATCOs?

But the market would have to readjust to 300 unemployed ATCOs suddenly becoming unavailable because they are no longer required for Class G airports.

They don’t all want to move to Dubai.

Anyway, how long before ATC is off-shored to remote locations in India and Brazil?

James_Chan wrote:

The market is in their favour and the salary scales reflect that?

Exactly. Which is why the demotion from ATCO to FISO would not be favoured by the incumbents or their unions.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy wrote:

With part time controlled airspace? I don’t see how that works.

It worked in Sweden for decades. The class C CTR/TMA became class G TIZ/TIA during hours of AFIS.

There is no such airspace in Sweden today, but I don’t know if that’s because there is no need for it or because the CAA decided it was a bad idea.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

because they are no longer required for Class G airports.

I gather you are assuming that many airports would be laying off most or all of their ATCOs without getting additional Class E airspace?
I think that scenario is less likely to happen.

Similarly for those whose roles are affected, I hope they would be able to move to another unit, as an ATCO, where the demand remains high and dearly needs them.

Last Edited by James_Chan at 29 Nov 13:58

Airborne_Again wrote:

The class C CTR/TMA became class G TIZ/TIA during hours of AFIS.

Yes, it happens all over where IAPs can operate without ATC, but how does it work in a UK Art 183 context?

Here we are, 94 posts later, and I stand by

EGKB Biggin Hill

Change art 183 to make it possible. It’s a law of man, not a law of physics.

Andreas IOM

Writing on this thread is like talking to my Alzheimer’s mum. I keep saying the same thing and it makes no difference.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Common sense does not seem to apply to the CAA or EASA. Nor does joined up thinking.

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