Experimental / homebuilt in Spain

milestogo had to check that TWTT was two weeks to taxi home build assist programme and not a UK insult

There are almost no national-CAA ramp checks here in Europe

The inspectors in Lugano come armed with a pretty comprehensive 54 point checklist, including M&B, Plog, unexpired databases, tech logs, oxygen plus the usual documents – be ready to smother them with paper/documents plus the requirement for crew currency for the airport.

milestogo wrote:

There’s too much uncertainty and I’m particularly put off

Chicken

milestogo wrote:

What a shame it can’t be flown here fully and legally

It can be flown however you like in most of Europe, that is a fact. What you have heard is FUD, in the correct sense of the word. But, a DA40 Tundra is cool, I would also like to have one of those

The inspectors in Lugano come armed with a pretty comprehensive 54 point checklist, including M&B, Plog, unexpired databases, tech logs, oxygen plus the usual documents – be ready to smother them with paper/documents plus the requirement for crew currency for the airport.

That’s probably one reason why nearly all homebuilts seen in Swiss airspace on FR24 are HB-reg, especially certain types which are not “local reg” in most other countries.

What you have heard is FUD, in the correct sense of the word

Yawn…. have you ever flown outside Norway, LeSving? (I mean GA, not airline)

If you want to post how one can be illegal or probably illegal and get away with it (mostly) that’s one thing. But the OP wants to fly IFR and there you are highly visible. No hiding either because Mode S is mandatory. He also wants a reasonable utility value, not hiding the plane in a hangar and flying for 50 miles and then back into the hangar. That’s OK for most “farm strip” activity but that’s about it; any more needs to be done sporadically.

I wonder if you were the owner of N22CQ, lovely looking Sportsman. There are several Sportmans (Sportsmen?) in Europe, but to register one requires going through the official certification procedure in those countries with no precedent. It usually means providing a complete list of parts and a copy of the certification procedure in the USA, maybe all translated into the local language. It can take time. There is a Sportsman kit in France for sale on Planecheck. The owner claims that it is not approved in France, but it may mean that he could not face the paperwork. You can fly IFR in France in an Experimental providing you have a certified engine maintained accordingly. It is also possible in the UK subject to approval.
https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Night-and-IFR-approval-for-Permit-to-Fly-aircraft-following-CAA-LAA-agreement/
Simon

Peter wrote:

Yawn…. have you ever flown outside Norway, LeSving? (I mean GA, not airline)

If you want to post how one can be illegal or probably illegal and get away with it (mostly) that’s one thing. But the OP wants to fly IFR and there you are highly visible. No hiding either because Mode S is mandatory. He also wants a reasonable utility value, not hiding the plane in a hangar and flying for 50 miles and then back into the hangar. That’s OK for most “farm strip” activity but that’s about it; any more needs to be done sporadically.

Have you ever flown IFR in an experimental in Europe?

I have flown to the EU (Sweden) Farther than that, and I will need more potent and faster aircraft and more comfort. I have tried flying a G1000 C-172 on autopilot, and I find it a complete waste of time and money. I need more action/adventure than that, or comfort. But then again, if I had a SR22T/DA42, who knows?

I’m not entirely stupid Peter. I understand milestogo want something to fly, without hassle and questions, throughout Europe IFR. A DA40 Tundra is perfect for that, and it’s a very cool aircraft. But, there is another perspective here. A hard core experimental builder/owner will not be put off by this FUD. People do fly around the world in experimentals.

Yes, they do so mostly illegally.

You are for ever moving goalposts, and when you don’t move them you are getting mixed up between

• legal
• illegal but not likely to get caught

Sure one can fly homebuilts illegally everywhere in Europe. I see some fun examples on FR24 and a number of them, including ones definitely without an IFR Permit, feature on the Eurocontrol movement database (thread posted here a while ago)

Of course homebuilders hate this sort of thing to be posted, but “you” would hate it more if you spent 50k-100k on one and discovered this afterwards.

Peter wrote:

Yes, they do so mostly illegally.

That is only your interpretation of it. You don’t know what these people do, what permissions they have gotten, who they have asked, what papers they have and so on. There are no laws regulating the operation of experimental aircraft in the sense as for certified aircraft. There are only ad hoc decisions made by local authorities. These decisions may be written, or they may not, but what kind of permission you will get when you ask, is all up to the person receiving and reading the “application”.

The only thing that is 100% clear, is that each homebuilt aircraft can only be flown within the restrictions printed on the C of A or the “permit”. That’s it really. This is also the consensus among 95% of the AAs in Europe, it’s the way it traditionally has been for all aircraft. If you stick to that, then no insurance company can legally create problems for you. Also, flying a US reg homebuilt is very different here than a European reg homebuilt.

I’t very serious claims you are putting forth here, saying people are flying illegally, when you know nothing about it.

You are spot on, LeSving, you can’t really draw any conclusions by monitoring FR24. You can get permissions for all sort of operations with experimentals. Things are quite easy with ECAC-Reg. if operated VFR – have done that up to FL 200 already and been sometimes asked by ATC, if I wish an IFR pickup…