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Experimental Time Building? (and certified avionics requirements)

LeSving wrote:

It’s not EASA’s fault that some local CAAs put all their pride and effort into restricting and confining GA

I wasn’t blaming EASA, I am blaming small minded CAA’s on restricting unnecessarly

LOAN, Austria

look696 wrote:

German CAA doesnt allow NVFR and IFR (IMC) in experimental aircraft

It looks like Germany allows IFR in homebuilts as from last year. Conditions stated here (german only unfortunately):
https://www.lba.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/T/T3/Einzelstuecken/OUV_Merkblatt_240-9.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=1

local copy of pdf

Last Edited by europaxs at 17 Mar 21:18
EDLE
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

europaxs wrote:

It looks like Germany allows IFR in homebuilts as from last year

This seems to be a safety analysis only (haven’t read it, only overlooked) , but still says, that it would be mandatory to use only certified avionics in your homebuilt if you would do NVFR/IFR. Maybe NVFR and IFR in homebuilt is in the pipeline at Germany …. but as we know, that could be years … Will try to read and understand that completely later on.

LOAN, Austria

that it would be mandatory to use only certified avionics in your homebuilt if you would do NVFR/IFR.

That point is moot in all circumstances. There is no way today to fly IFR with non-certified avionics. It is not even possible VFR. However, it has nothing to do with the instruments being certified, but everything to do with instruments satisfying airspace and ATC and other requirements.

Radio: no need to be certified. But the radio authority in each country request that the radio has certain performance characteristics. They don’t do tests themselves, like they did before, but leave it up to the manufacturers to document that it does. The only way for the factory to document that the radio meet the requirements is to certify it.

Transponder: no need to be certified, but this time ATC and airspace requirements needs documents showing the equipment meets the requirements.

All other avionics, GPS, mode B, DME etc, VOR will meet the same problem as the transponder.

The result is there are no non certified avionics to be purchased anywhere. It makes no sense for a manufacturer to make non certified avionics. There are a few exceptions, but none of those can be used in Europe, not for IFR and not for VFR.

The point about certified avionics is moot.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

That point is moot in all circumstances. There is no way today to fly IFR with non-certified avionics. It is not even possible VFR. However, it has nothing to do with the instruments being certified, but everything to do with instruments satisfying airspace and ATC and other requirements….

What exactly do you mean by “certified”? I have the feeling you mean something different from what most people mean.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Certified is certified according to EASA or FAA or whatever other bureau, in an aviation context. I mean exactly the same thing as you. For avionics I guess the appropriate term is TSO/ETSO? Manufactured and/or designed after a performance standard for aviation. Maybe there are other kinds of certified for this kind of equipment, but I don’t what that is.

The point is, the airspace/ATC for instance, will require an equipment to function after an aviation performance standard. It does not require the equipment to be manufactured under an authorisation. The equipment does not need to be certified to be acceptable for the ATC, they only need documentation that it indeed performs after the standard.

In principle any kind of documentation will do. In practice it is cheaper/easier to manufacture the equipment after the appropriate authorization. That’s why there are no non certified transponders or radios today, not for European airspace. No non certified GPSes anywhere and so on. It makes no sense to produce non certified avionics.

Instruments is a different matter and also autopilots and all kinds of systems, engines.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Despite com and txp in your homebuilt, you can make use of any avionics you want, even self built electronics.

LOAN, Austria

look696 wrote:

Despite com and txp in your homebuilt, you can make use of any avionics you want, even self built electronics.

In principle yes. Nothing in a non certified aircraft is required to be certified. The only reasons to have certified equipment is to have equipment that are build to standards to fulfill non aircraft specific requirements (radio, transponder, IFR avionics typically). Engines, instruments and the aircraft itself have no such non aircraft specific requirements to fulfill, this the only requirement is airworthiness as seen by the authority.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

That is country dependent however. Try to get some stuff past the UK LAA…

Could you bolt a PT6 on the front of an RV in Norway?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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