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FAA, and running Items on Condition

Coming from another thread, the Mike Busch webinar on FAR Maintenance, who runs items on their aeroplane….On Condition….and what is your strategy?

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

Just about every single Part 91 owner/operator is operating “on condition” and the overwhelming strategy seems to be to keep it in the air as long as possible before something breaks

Seriously, what do you want to “know” ?

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

When I moved from EASA to FAA, there were two distinct reasons. One was STC enhancements, that were just not possible under EASA, and the second was that I thought maintenance would be easier. Note, not cheaper, or less safe, but would give me more flexibility in the future decisions i made. I have come across a number of individuals who think that operating items on condition, is a cheap move to skirt maintenance, or expenditure on your aeroplane. Nothing is further from the truth, however, I have a planned schedule to overhaul/replace on Condition items, as I see, lets say sensible. For instance a flap motor assembly. That would be nearer the end of my list. Others may have it at the top, but I perceive that as a safety critical item, it is not as important as say a landing gear actuator. The question, What do I want know, is actual nothing. I am interested though as to how individuals determine their on condition items.

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

BeechBaby wrote:

I am interested though as to how individuals determine their on condition items.

This is a very complex subject and there are a myriad of responses.

First off, it is very dependent on the aircraft type.

Next up is the operating environment.

Then there’s personal “perception”, which is like opinions: ie. everyone has one !

ps: I’ll shut up now, but understand, this what I DO, Full Time, 6/7 a week.

Last Edited by Michael at 10 Sep 14:15
FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

BeechBaby wrote:

I have a planned schedule to overhaul/replace on Condition items

That means you’re no longer maintaining those items on condition

I spend now and have spent a lot of time fiddling with my planes, and I maintain ongoing personal familiarity with the condition of each area and system. Every year I take on a little project to improve the condition of something that I think might be worth doing. That way the plane slowly improves in condition the longer I own it, not vice versa. This works fine for my 50-75 hrs per year (per plane), and is not much different than the way I maintain motorcycles (on which I have never over 40 years been left stranded anywhere). The single substantial exception I take to maintaining on condition is the magnetos, which I’ve replaced based on hours (and one impulse coupling failure) and also I had a CS prop overhauled ‘just because’… It had been a long number of calendar years since anybody looked at it, but in the end the overhaul turned out to have been unnecessary per the prop shop.

As Michael says the approach taken should be closely tailored to many factors. My planes are flown only by me, only VFR, and only in good weather. That very much reduces the chances and consequences of many kind of failures – basically there is little except engine and control system failure that is going to cause a huge problem, and those items and the structures all get looked at regularly by the same guy flying the plane. Also, avionics are basically a non-issue – I don’t need them to fly.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 10 Sep 16:26

As said, the biggest advantage on maintenance with an N-reg over many EASA regs is flexibility, not necessarily sheer savings (although that plaxs a role, too). Under part 91, one is simply not constantly forced to count the hours towards the next 50, 100, 200 (or whatever) hours inspection. If often see that with EASA reg owners being hassled due to the “hours remaining until…”. especially before embarking on a bigger trip. With an N-reg there are essentially zero “musts”, except the annual inspection. Between these, I am totally relaxed and often don’t even know how many hours the aircraft has flown since the last one. I just roughly make sure I do a 50 hours inspection every 6 months or so. 5 months? 7 months? Who cares! I just do it when I have time (6 months roughly equate for about 50 flight hours for me).

It’s just so much more practicable.

With all the components installed, whether I go by the manufacturer’s guidance it really depends. And that’s the great thing. The owner decides, based on his specific operating conditions, previous ownership experiencece, etc. As MB said in the video, the manufacturer recommendations are really “worst case” intervals.
With the mags and alternators, I mostly go with the manufacturer guidance and only prolong these intervals by 30% or so. BAT1 stays until it dies. BAT2 I keep on the 2 year interval, as it is not that expensive (still expensive!) and it is needed for the parachute activation. With the prop, I am at 200% of TBO and intend to go much further. Many other things are way above “TBO”, too. The engine is now at TBO will not see a full overhaul for another 12 years at least, I guess. As I said, I closely consult with my shop for these things and that works brilliantly. For the type, they have tons of experience on what generally makes sense and what doesn’t. Some recommendations from Cirrus are really crazy, like cleaning the TKS filters every two years or changing the drain valves every two years.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 10 Sep 17:02
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Silvaire wrote:

That means you’re no longer maintaining those items on condition

Ha, ha, semantics, which of course leads us into trouble. They sit on the work card as owner deferred, on condition, with a notional idea in my head when I may replace them. That is why I asked the question initially. Michael has hinted that it is

Michael wrote:

This is a very complex subject and there are a myriad of responses.

I as an owner, realise that, and we could spend a whole day debating it, but, Silvaire has responded that it is actually very tailored to his needs, mission, and flight regime. In a sense like me, but when the parameters change, you have to have an idea of what may constitute a more urgent upgrade than others, unless of course you just throw shedloads of cash at it, but that takes up into another area of debate

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

Worth noting that some people who work in the business have stated here in the past that the FAA reads EuroGA and some inspector has given them a bollocking

So it is hard to get any detailed opinions posted, by any remotely identifiable person who is an A&P or IA, on any area which is not clear-cut.

The bottom line in GA is that the owner has two options:

  • get clued-up and get involved (most don’t want to, or can’t)
  • find a very good and trustworthy company (not many of them about)

and that assumes that the owner isn’t running some odd agenda of his own (e.g. being a tight bugger who wants something for nothing). So, the issues will never go away…

The 3rd option is to do a syndicate where somebody else is in charge of all the maintenance, but then you need to address the long term payback that person will be looking for…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

So it is hard to get any detailed opinions posted, by any remotely identifiable person who is an A&P or IA, on any area which is not clear-cut.

Which to a large extent was the Mike Busch critique, in that a lot of the manufacturers life parameters, natural commercial built in redundancy, is supported by a regime that is potentially vague, or not, depending which side of the fence you sit. I also agree that because the system is mis-understood by a lot of A&P/I/A, that they naturally bend to the ultra cautious mode, leaving the owners in an awkward place.

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

Silvaire wrote:

I have a planned schedule to overhaul/replace on Condition items
That means you’re no longer maintaining those items on condition

I view on comdition as meaning I do not have to follow a manufacturer’s schedule but can form my own.

EGTK Oxford
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