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FADEC - how exactly can it improve performance or fuel consumption on our piston engines

From here

“I would be looking for FADEC engine managment”

Then how they will be trained on mixture? (ironically, you don’t learn about mixture in flying schools as they already save load of fuel by just flying at 2000rpm and getting new engine at TBO)

ESSEX, United Kingdom

A_and_C wrote:

I would be looking for FADEC engine managment , the fuel saving over the life of the engine would more than pay for it.

I doubt serious fuel savings with FADEC, if you treat your engine right. Having said that, it might be useful for engine health reasons.

Ibra wrote:

ironically, you don’t learn about mixture in flying schools

That’s an impermissible generalisation.

mh
Inside the sky.
EDXE, EDXF, Germany

A manually adjustable mixture is an outdated concept (for decades, tbh) and omitting it on a trainer aircraft certainly doesn’t produce worse pilots!

Novice pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

Yeah… no. A manual mixture allows ops for best power or best economy, depending on what you’re aiming at. Same goes for the Prop, that allows to chose for power or noise, depending on what you intend to do. (So that in most cases any SR20 is louder than my Lake, if flown right).

Just a simple single lever FADEC isn’t really what you’re looking for in an aircraft, if you take a closer look. If you haven’t been in that situation, imagine to perform a high DA-takeoff with a FADEC leaning for best economy instead of best power. I’d rather not. But that’s a different topic altogether and @Peter might want to separate these pots from the new Piper thread?

[ done – a great idea ]

mh
Inside the sky.
EDXE, EDXF, Germany

@mh, what you’re describing (automatic optimization for all conditions) can be done but only with throttle and propeller ‘by wire’, with a lot of sensors and the pilot power control serving only as a demand sensor. I don’t think many would be willing to buy and maintain that, versus moving the controls themselves. I wouldn’t.

I don’t think many would be willing to buy and maintain that, versus moving the controls themselves. I wouldn’t.

Anybody flying a diesel engine (e.g. Thielert 2.0) already has that. In fact, the CAA even suggests/requires differences training on Single Lever Power Control (SLPC) engines. Not because you need to know how to move that single lever, but because the failure modes are totally different from a traditional two/three lever setup.

It works brilliantly by the way. The only thing you need to monitor is the %power. FADEC does the rest. (Of course diesel engines don’t lean the way petrol engines do, so there’s no choice to be made between best power and best economy.)

Last Edited by BackPacker at 31 Mar 08:10

mh wrote:

imagine to perform a high DA-takeoff with a FADEC leaning for best economy instead of best power. I’d rather not.

Wouldn’t it be simple to implement automatic leaning for best economy except when the throttle is put full forward in which case the engine is leaned to best power?

Bremen (EDWQ), Germany

a_kraut wrote:

Wouldn’t it be simple to implement automatic leaning for best economy except when the throttle is put full forward in which case the engine is leaned to best power?

I agree. Or there could be a button to switch between optimisation for “best power” and “best economy”.

In any case I find the argument against adapting technology that has been used in cars for decades weak.

Novice pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

The benefit will be very limited – while technology dinosaurs, if leaned properly there is nothing the electronics can do – except ignition advance when well LOP – the pilot can’t, so it does not make the same engine significantly more efficient. So in real life, you will get an easier engine start and a barely measurable reduction in fuel consumption.

The advantages would be that those pilot who don’t lean would see some improvement, and that – especially if “knock sensors” are employed – there is less risk of damage by the ham-fisted pilot.

Biggin Hill

It works brilliantly by the way. The only thing you need to monitor is the %power. FADEC does the rest. (Of course diesel engines don’t lean the way petrol engines do, so there’s no choice to be made between best power and best economy.)

True, it’s very easy to operate. Though there is one thing that I found a little disappointing about the FADEC on the Thielert 2.0. There is an indication of fuel flow, but that’s a calculated one from various sensors which only appeared to be accurate at a 60-65% power setting IIRC. A simple mechanical fuel flow meter would have provided more accurate results..

Private field, Mallorca, Spain
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