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Familiarisation needs for a TB20

I am about to take delivery of my new acquired TB-20 next week and I am asking myself how many hours of familiarization are necessary to ensure a safe flight.

So far, I have only flown C152 and C172 which are obviously different aircraft (the difference training on retractable gear and constant speed has already been done in the simulator with my FI).

My familiarization plan at the moment is:
- Ground course of about an 1h to discuss the plane with an FI
- Traffic patterns until I am familiar with the landing characteristics (about 2h)
- Cross-country flight to do some airwork (steep turns, stall recovery, slow flight) and get an instruction on the operation of the KFC150 autopilot (another 2h)

My plan is ferry the plane after this day of familiarization from Poland to Germany (about 3 hours of flight time).

What is the opinion of the more experienced users about this plan?

EDLM, Germany

Got to say I’ve never heard of differences training in a simulator, but FCL allows it if an approved device I think

I would make sure you do the upper air general handling before diving straight into the circuit otherwise I would suggest you will waste time and get stressed

What avionics have you got? Time pre reading and getting to know those will save you much time in the aircraft

Have fun!

Now retired from forums best wishes

Get a copy of the pilot’s operating handbook and give that a study first which gives you the exact information you need for things like configurations, speeds, limitations emergency procedures etc. You’ll also need to consider what your insurance company want.

Have you done VP RU and T variant with an FI? Non of them are needed for 152 and most of 172.

LFMD, France

A TB20 conversion from the basic training types, for a reasonably bright pilot, is about 10hrs. The plane flies very well and has no vices / weird behaviour, so most of it will be dealing with technical stuff like planning ahead (you cannot arrive overhead the airport at 5000ft and 140kt and hope to land ), engine management and of course very importantly the specific avionics installed. You do have to understand all of it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

you cannot arrive overhead the airport at 5000ft and 140kt and hope to land

I think you can. It all depends how many orbits you do!

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

I converted from the C172 to the TB20 a couple of years ago. I did five hours of flying time with an instructor covering more or less the things you’ve outlined and in a similar order, and much more time reading the POH and the manuals for the various bits of kit. I had about 200 hours total time when I converted.

It still took me a few flights on my own to really get the hang of energy management when arriving somewhere. You can’t just chop the throttle, and you can’t easily go down and slow down.

That said it’s a fantastic aeroplane. Congratulations on your acquisition.

Shoreham, United Kingdom

Nothing wrong with your plan, but I would add some conditions.
As Peter says, the TB-20 is a pilot-friendly type. No bad manners. Your training should make it clear that manoeuvring does use more geography in the TB-20 than in a Cessna so remember to make more room for turns, especially when you arrive back home and everything looks familiar and you have to turn base.
+1 on energy management, which is not really an issue with the little Cessna’s.

The thing is that while I assume you can absorb all you need to know in the program you describe, and the basic handling will be easy as long as things are normal, you will still not have your normal ressources in case of problems and deteriorating conditions, so your margins for the long flight back home should be wider.

My thoughts: You should plan the flight so well that you practically know all of it by heart including possible en-route diversion options, you should be more weather conservative, you should have peace in mind by knowing not only emergency procedures but also how you will detect any problem. Things like How will you actually detect a generator problem? Will the autopilot work in case of a vacuum failure? What is the minimum runway length you will accept in case you need to land flaps up, and what approach speed is that based on? How will you handle an elevator trim runaway? What are the normal engine and system instrument indications during cruising flight? How will you remember to change fuel tank frequently, being used to aircraft where that is not necessary/possible. How will you remember to lower gear before landing, being used to fixed gear aircraft. You don’t just trust the gear alarm, do you?

And emergency gear extension practise seems to be missing from your plan. I know, in part from experience, that having trained that in the air with an instructor, will reduce stress levels considerably in case of a real problem. As will training any non-normal scenario.

Of course, tell everyone and yourself that you will only depart if conditions are right. And after that, you will only fly all the way to your destination if everything continues to be fine. Consider keeping external pressure low by not telling friends/family your ETA, but rather surprise them by calling after arriving.

I miss the years I frequently flew the TB-20. It could well be the best all-round family tourer in existence. Among many other virtues, you’ll love the ride in turbulence and the cross-wind landings, compared to Cessna’s. Congratulations!

Last Edited by huv at 10 Jun 18:22
huv
EKRK, Denmark

Thanks for the helpful Tipps.

I have already read the POH more than once so I feel at least theoretically well prepared for this adventure.

I have two more question:
What is an elevator trim runaway?
And Can I practice an emergency gear extension? I mean more than once? Is the gear not locker after this extension?

EDLM, Germany

What is an elevator trim runaway?

It is the autopilot trim servo driving the pitch trim continuously. Certified autopilots that have pitch trim are required to annunciate if the trim has been running continuously for something like 10 seconds, and are required to disconnect the autopilot if the trim has been running continuously for something like 15 seconds. The pilot’s guide for your autopilot should have these details and you need to obtain all these and read through them. Actually a lot of that stuff should be in the AFMSs (flight manual / POH supplements).

And Can I practice an emergency gear extension? I mean more than once? Is the gear not locker after this extension?

Yes, as many times as you want. It should be tested at least after the Annual service, because various things are then done which might affect it e.g. the two gas struts which lower the nose gear (against the airflow) get replaced.

Follow the checklist procedure strictly. If e.g. the gear pump power is ON when you pull out the emergency release valve, you will trash the seals in the valve, as the pump squirts in the hydraulic fluid at 1000+ PSI trying to maintain the pressure in the system.

If you go to my vimeo videos (they are not all mine; I put some other peoples’ ones there also, for hosting) here and put “gear” in the search box, you will find various videos showing the landing gear operation. Also here and here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
14 Posts
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