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Few questions for DA42 owners/flyers

@Emir: for the non-existing ‘NG to -vi’-upgrade one shoud keep in mind that the -vi still is a NG, even the POH is actually mostly not modified (not existing, ,they only published an adopted checklist so far). The intention of Diamond is (i) either to sell a brand new -vi, or (ii) to upgrade the ‘old’ TwinStars. NG owners are not a subject of Diamond’s interest in that case.

@Peter: the GFC700 is fully integrated into the G1000, being a digital autopilot within its basic functions inbcl. the FD. So no more seperate AP (as with the KAP140). What I do appreciate here is the extremly stable and precise digital handling even in adverse weather conditions. Next to the pure autopilot functions you have an horizontal as well as vertical flight planning mode with LNAV and VNAV, additionally the FLC mode which is doing great. For LNAV and VNAV simply put the desired altitutes for a respective waypoint into the FMS, choose VNAV, and the G1000 will do all the rest for you with even user-selected descend rates, displaying TOCs and TODs. Only A/T is missing :) … Of course you do have the whole SIDs / STARs which are followed by the system. What comes into my mind finally is the integrated WX-Radar in addition to the stormscope (which is an option now, approx. 30K€) bringing you the actual weather on the ND with having a vertical and a horizontal mode.

@Aart: all technical modifications are implemented, and yes, the airframe is modified for that, too. Only the weight decrease by about 40KG is not realized with the -vi-upgrade.

@Dave: fully correct for the TKS of course! Must-have, too … we do have the traffic aller also, makes sense IMHO.

I have flown with the GFC700 (in a TBM850) and it flies very nicely but no better than my KFC225 in terms of aircraft control, and the rest is in the implementation of roll steering from the GPS. Laterally, a KAP140 with roll steering should fly perfectly nicely. Obviously a GFC700 should be better not least because it has (they claim) brushless servo motors but it’s a matter of how much more it costs on a particular aircraft. Having VNAV capability via the autopilot (being able to autofly a programmed VNAV profile) is nice but in the GA context is a long way from being a big fish to fry, because the way GA flight is managed with ATC in Europe doesn’t usually support VNAV profiles (they clear you up and down in steps; climbs are performance / engine management limited, and descents are trivial to manage but are ultimately limited by strategic considerations re e.g. icing conditions below).

The general view seems to be that you should not buy a low-options-config model if you want a good resale value and that is so for both a Diamond and a Cirrus, but my view is that you lose so much on a plane that you may as well buy exactly what you want for your mission profile, and plan to keep it long term. If you change planes every say 2 years (not unusual in the Cirrus scene) then you definitely want to buy the fully loaded version. Same with cars of course.

Last Edited by Peter at 17 Jun 21:32
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter for the FL200+ IFR I fly the GFC 700 VNAV is very useful. Not sure why Cirri are seen to change hands any more than any other type. Do you have data to support this?

Last Edited by JasonC at 17 Jun 21:47
EGTK Oxford

Yes but I don’t think your plane is a DA42, Jason

It is a pressurised deiced turboprop with radar!

You may as well say that VNAV is useful in your plane but omit to say it is a 737.

Not really applicable to the DA42 which won’t be flown at its FL240 ceiling unless absolutely necessary, due to the oxygen issues at that level.

My changing hands comment was from new i.e. on newly bought planes (factory fitted options). Not many options there, no pun intended.

Last Edited by Peter at 17 Jun 21:48
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Sorry Peter, I thought you referred to a TBM 850…

EGTK Oxford

GFC VNAV on DA42: There are two versions. The -TDI has VNAV, but not coupled to the autopilot, so you need to set the climb/descent rate yourself, and then manage the progress by ensuring that the vertical profile bug (ILS-like, but in magenta) stays where it should be. No big deal indeed.
Starting with the -NG, the G1000 comes with VNAV coupled to autopilot, as evidenced by a ‘VNAV’ button added to the group of autopilot buttons.

So Emir, when someone offers you a -TDI with VNAV you will then point out that it is of course useless without autopilot coupling and that you will offer 10k less

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

Starting with the -NG, the G1000 comes with VNAV coupled to autopilot, as evidenced by a ‘VNAV’ button added to the group of autopilot buttons.

Does this apply to aircraft upgraded to NG (e.g. year 2008) or only to out-of-factory NG (I guess 2009 and later)?

NG owners are not a subject of Diamond’s interest in that case.

IMHO that’s not OK since those are the customers who have already put lot of money into Diamod, either:
a) upgrading from TDI to NG (you know all story about Thielert and warranty) and they were probably thinking that with this upgrade their investment was somewhat secured; after that Diamon offers TDI to -VI upgrade which makes their NGs looking much less attractive
b) buying out-of-factory NG and they were assured they were buying state-of-the-art aircraft and then few months later -VI emerges with much better characteristics and for more-less same amount of money

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

And one more for Wolfipilot

I would strongly recommend thinking about a DA42NG with the Austro Engines at least, prices starting around 450K€.

@Wolfipilot: Why? I’ve heard different arguments, different pros and cons and I’m not an inch closer to making decision. I test flew both 2.0 and AE300 and obviously AE is stronger, giving proper performance to the aircraft. And that would be my choice if 2.0s didn’t come into the game. Upgrade 2.0 to 2.0s is cheaper, probably giving lower performance than AE but it brings quite short aircraft down-time. According to info I got, NG is similar in performance to 2.0s equipped aircraft while both are quite behind -VI. There a diagram showing this and as I’ve heard it’s pretty accurate – it missed 2.0s data but it shoud be 10 kts faster than 2.0 with same loss of power due to altitude with critical elevation 6000 ft.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Emir, I have no experience with the 2.0s at all, I never tested them, only flew the 1.7, the 2.0 and the AE. So unfortunately I cannot say any pro or con about the 2.0s. The potential down-time wouldn’t be that much of a factor in my decision making process, I learned that most estimated conversion times will not be held at there very end and they do always find the one or the other aspect while doing the conversion … ever thought about a -vi upgrade?

Starting with the -NG, the G1000 comes with VNAV coupled to autopilot, as evidenced by a ‘VNAV’ button added to the group of autopilot buttons.
Does this apply to aircraft upgraded to NG (e.g. year 2008) or only to out-of-factory NG (I guess 2009 and later)?

No, only for newly built ones, it seems. Well, that’s what this Sherlock Holmes concludes from the following picture.. Note missing VNAV button on the middle/lower left hand side of the MFD display (right screen)

http://www.planecheck.com/image.asp?Imgname=24017/img051398940919.jpg

Private field, Mallorca, Spain
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