Back when you did your PPL, did you fly through clouds with your instructor, to get a feeling for what it feels like?
My instructor did that with me at the controls not long ago. First he had me practice a Precision Radar Approach at Wittmund Airbase (ETNT), first under normal VFR conditions and then “under the hood” for the second go. Then we flew north, crossing the East Frisian islands and climbed to FL055. There were some scattered clouds (SC I think, though I never really got the hang of differentiating cloud types and their abbreviations…) over the North Sea, with a cloudbase of roughly 5000ft and tops about 1000ft higher. He had me practice flying to the Helgoland(HEL) VOR and on the way there we flew through some of the clouds. We also practiced climbing, descending and turning in the clouds. After overflying Helgoland at 5500ft we turned back at FL065 and did some more VOR navigation excercises, again flying through some clouds. When he noticed that they got denser we descended, breaking clouds at about 4500ft and flew back home. On the way we had a short encounter with freezing rain (when already way below the clouds) but that lasted only for a few seconds.
I have to say that while I’m fairly certain that what we did was not strictly legal (as our aircraft is VFR only and we didn’t even file a flight plan) I found the argument of my instructor, that I need to be prepared for clouds in training, very convincing. EASA mandates a 180° turn for VFR pilots flying into clouds involuntarily, but how am I supposed to perform one without ever having practiced flying turns in a cloud? I feel much safer by having practiced this, I feel like if I enter a cloud accidentally I can at least safely get out of it now. Also practicing this way over the North Sea is probably the safest place (very few traffic at these altitudes and no significant obstacles below)
What do you think?
I did so some training in IMC during initial and it was useful. Really shows how you can’t trust your senses. Went into IR(R) straight after PPL but got to respect the clouds.
You’ve mentioned a desire to fly cross country. That means dealing with weather. There are situations that are legally VFR but
defacto IMC. Therefore, I believe instrument training is almost a requirement for a long distance VFR pilot. That doesn’t necessarily mean the full rating, but you should get the the point where you are confident and comfortable doing basic maneuvers in instrument conditions, not to be a scofflaw and fly illegally, but because there will come a time when you need those skills.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
You’ve mentioned a desire to fly cross country. That means dealing with weather. There are situations that are legally VFR but
defacto IMC. Therefore, I believe instrument training is almost a requirement for a long distance VFR pilot. That doesn’t necessarily mean the full rating, but you should get the the point where you are confident and comfortable doing basic maneuvers in instrument conditions, not to be a scofflaw and fly illegally, but because there will come a time when you need those skills.
That is exactly what I am aiming at, WhiskeyPapa. Very well summarized.
MedEwok wrote:
Back when you did your PPL, did you fly through clouds with your instructor, to get a feeling for what it feels like?My instructor did that with me at the controls not long ago.
I think doing this under VFR is setting a really bad example for the student by an authority figure. And it is of course completely illegal.
If you want IMC experience, go fly IFR in IMC with a qualified instructor, or on a simulator.
Aviathor wrote:
I think doing this under VFR is setting a really bad example for the student by an authority figure. And it is of course completely illegal.
I agree. When I got my PPL, it was mandatory with a couple of hours of “IFR”, but it was legal IFR flights, even logged on my book as IFR. It was under hood, but also some VOR and ILS tracking (in VMC).
Turning 180 degrees etc is dead easy when you are prepared, but if I should suddenly find myself in IMC and my GPS broke down at the same time, I am not sure I could make such a turn. Also, making a 180 in terrain strike me as extremely stupid, a recepe for disaster. Far above the terrain is another matter, but why turn, when you can descend nicely straight ahead?
In a glider I learned to pull the brakes in such circumstances, and otherwise treat clouds as granite.
In the UK, IMC time is done during the PPL to meet the training requirement. It is legal provided the FI has an IMCR or an IR. In UK Class G, no flight plan or a clearance is needed for IFR.
I found it very instructive, but at the same time I realised very early on that flying away from clouds has practically no future for getting from A to B, so I was very keen to learn how to do it 
Aviathor wrote:
I think doing this under VFR is setting a really bad example for the student by an authority figure. And it is of course completely illegal.
I agree. We do practise basic instrument flying under the hood, as it is part of the PPL syllabus:
(xxv) Exercise 19: Basic instrument flight:
(A) physiological sensations;
(B) instrument appreciation; attitude instrument flight;
(C) instrument limitations;
(D) basic manoeuvres:
(a) straight and level at various air speeds and configurations;
(b) climbing and descending;
(c) standard rate turns, climbing and descending, onto selected headings;
(d) recoveries from climbing and descending turns
I feel much more comfortable to be able to see if there is another plane around: “Flieg nie in eine Wolke ein, es könnt’ schon jemand drinne sein.” And from my own experience, the practise under the hood is sufficient to survive an inadvertent flight into clouds.
I should make clear I’m suggesting training in a properly equipped plane with a properly rated instructor. Of course, using a hood for practice is also quite useful!
I did not have clouds during my PPL training, so the question never popped up. 
Aviathor wrote:
I think doing this under VFR is setting a really bad example for the student by an authority figure
I tend do agree.
I think what Aviathor argues outweighs the advantages of such a maneuver. As has been said, the execution of a 180 is not that difficult by itself and can well enough be practiced under the hood. Is that a realistic scenario? No, of course not. Is what you guys did a realistic scenario, though? No. This is nothing like that moment when the weather closes in on you, you have a handful of things on your mind and suddenly they’re all around you, those damn clouds… Maybe even in a low altitude situation like on that other thread.
