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Flying with small children onboard

MedEwok wrote:

…my wife insisting on me only going flying when the kids are taken care of …

I would guess this is the heart of the problem?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

+1 for Bose QC for small kids. When mine were smaller they didn’t like A20s and would pull them off or do strange things with the mic. You can get them used to QC at home.

Also flying with wife only first seems obvious.

LPFR, Poland

I’ve been flying with my kids since they where eight months old. I’ve used these but they generally won’t stay on long. Maybe practise a bit on the sofa at home first. I now use those pink headsets from Peter Mundy’s Pilot shop. They are great, the kids use them with an iPad (now aged 4 and 5). I just strapped the maxi cosi on the rear seat with the belts, and a soon as I could I used a proper car seat but they are not very handy with headsets. Now I just use a little boosterseat. My wife flew with us for the first time this year, and my girls ended up comforting my wife instead of the other way around. Don’t make a big deal out of it, it helps to have the plane ready beforehand. Have some snacks and fly somewhere nice, Juist is just the ticket!

EHTE, Netherlands

…my wife insisting on me only going flying when the kids are taken care of …

It sounds like you have to solve a non-aviation issue, since this might be the same for fishing/golf/sailing etc.

Why would you not gain currency during the odd hour here and there until you have the basis techniques automated and can start talking and watching the kids while flying ?
(Not sure whether it was either necessary or helpful, but I started flying non-solo after approx 10 hrs solo in less than a month – i would have been to focused before that)

And if that is not possible for any physical or psychological reason (whatever it might be) are you maybe fooling yourself with the plans (dreams) you have ?

...
EDM_, Germany

Quite an interesting topic for me as I am in a similar position: a wife who is not entirely comfortable with small SE plane an one year old.

Being a low hour (>10) post-PPL I shouldn’t give any advice. But I have taken my wife and kid. Other than the logistics (child-set etc), my kid had no issue. One hour EDMG- EDFE Egelsbach and back, he slept both ways. He even managed to forget his annoyance with the child-headset (just noise reduction). My wife, however, was a bit nervous even with light turbulences. I don’t know how much of that was due to her sitting in the back seat with the baby.

We agreed that it’d be better for her to make shorter trips and get used to the feeling. That opportunity unfortunately hasn’t come up so often due to scheduling, weather, etc.

Last Edited by Arun at 04 Nov 19:34
EDMB, Germany

I can’t help directly because I didn’t start flying until my kids were about 6 and 9 and by then they used Bose X headsets without problems. However I will post this in case there is another angle here: your wife being actually worried about crashing with the kids – whether or not she is aboard – but doesn’t want to say it directly.

My ex wife (I was divorced by then, otherwise I would have never been allowed to do a PPL, due to “you cannot have fun while I am at home mucking out the horses” etc) demanded a second pilot if I was taking one of the kids up. Bizzarely she didn’t mind if the pilot sat in the back! I had the impression it was more an exercise in control over the ex.

So I ended up borrowing, and often paying for, various co-pilots. On longer trips e.g. one to Friedrichshafen, I obviously had to pay the hotel, food, etc.

This went on for several years. It eventually came to an end when the younger one was really keen to fly with me to meet up with @eal and do some flying pics of his Jetprop and I could not find another pilot in time, so my son made a lot of noise and she caved in, and never tried this particular stunt again. That’s what happens… kids grow up and at some point the other parent loses tight control over them.

What I hear is that wives are most often worried about the pilot getting a “heart attack”. Not without reason, if you look at the health of GA in general… So maybe another approach to any difficulties is to suggest a second pilot is aboard.

Obviously it won’t be possible in a 4-seater to have your wife aboard as well.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

LeSving wrote:

At least let her read the relevant books of PPL theory

Please don’t make your wife read the relevant books of PPL theory before going an a flight with you.

As I don’t have a wife and small kids myself, I cannot compare to the exact situation and how this differs from taking people with small children per se.

But over the last years, I have had guests with children (a toddler once, 4-6 years old children sometimes) and this year, we organized a flying day for socially underprivileged children out of EDLE where we took 1-2 children + 1 parent usually. We did about 50 flights that day. We were well prepared with sick bags and everything, but honestly, everyone walked away with a smile, the children and the parents. None of them were asked to study the PPL theory books before going on a flight with the lot of us.

I do agree it could be useful to go flying with your wife only first, to separate out the issue of how she likes it vs. how the children play along and to put her in a better position to take care of the children. But if that is hard to organize, don’t let this be a show-stopper.

I think it’s ok to have her in the RHS and the children in the back. She’ll be able to reach back and talk to them and calm them if that should be necessary, but chances are, it won’t. It is possible and legal though to place 3 children under the age of 10 in the back seat row even of a 4-seat aircraft, but I’m not quite sure about 1 adult + 2 small children.

On a general note: Good to hear you are progressing and considering taking up your family now!

Hungriger Wolf (EDHF), Germany

It is really wonderful to see the constructive opinions here from varied perspectives. Well as someone who has < 10 hours after PPL, my opinion does not even count for 2 cents; however I have some pride and happiness in taking my near and dear ones (almost immediately after PPLA). With this I can relate some of my experience.

MedEwok wrote:

What other preparations should I take?

The first passenger I took was my Mom, just a short 20 min flight. Gave her a brief intro to the panel and seat belts and communication buttons (around 10-15min on ground) and made sure that comms worked well after motor start (volume wise) and devised simple protocol for no-talking phases like take off landing and any other times which I indicate. This was my first flight after PPLA, I however did couple of touch n’ go s to calm my nerves! Then followed the same method with my Sister-in-Law for slightly bigger jaunt (my confidence had increased by then). All these times I had multiple plans made with turn arounds at regular intervals. Just round trips, no landings at other airports.

This was followed by taking another friend and his wife few weeks later which had some nervous moments as described in an other thread here. However the preparation was similar with multiple options with turn arounds at regular intervals. I did however deviate in my plans and that resulted in some varied blood pressure as most of you know already.

The one aspect was none of these passengers understood German and I was doing all radio communication with German and I had to every now and then translate to them what was transpiring. It was however discussed before and did not pose much problems.

This weekend I wanted to take my brother with me and we both were excited. He’s more technically enthusiastic and understands German, I was looking to show off my newly acquired skills. After one practice landing, I decided not to go up again since the cloud covers were not in my comfort zone. Many of you here were directly responsible for helping to call it off…thank you. It takes some mental make up to call off when you have prepared and looking forward to it but conditions are marginal. Do keep this in mind, despite all planning, don’t be afraid to call it off at the last minute if any of the usual operators are not in ‘OK’ range.

Will continue to soak in the knowledge from other’s experiences and hopefully it will come to good use when it is time to take my wife up in the air!

Germany

MedEwok wrote:

How to arrange the seating?

I did some research some time ago on seating and flying with toddlers. My conclusion was that it is illegal to have a child sit on a lap etc.. and that the best practice is to use the same seats as you would use in your car.

I did find this on AOPA.org: If you have a Cessna 172 but want to bring your spouse and three small kids, the FAA issued a letter of interpretation a few years ago that said two children can occupy one seat belt, provided their combined weight doesn’t exceed 170 pounds.

Maybe putting your wife and the two kids in the back seat together is the best option?

MedEwok wrote:

What headsets/hearing-protection to get and use? I have one childrens pilot headset, the P51C Cadet model sold to me by another EuroGA member for a bargain, should I buy another? The 1.5 year old will probably want a headset too when she sees her brother have one. She’s also very talkactive for her age, so I’m afraid a simple earmuffs for hearing protection won’t suffice. The wife can get a used headset from the aircraft rental company for free, or should I buy her one with ANR?

For a 30 minute flight I wouldn’t worry about ANR. A second child headset would be nice.

MedEwok wrote:

How to deal with the intercomm inflight? Knowing my children they will probably talk alot in flight, unless they fall asleep. This could be distracting. If I isolate them and my wife from my intercomm, I might miss important information and cannot answer questions which my wife surely will have inflight

You are the commander and responsible for a safe flight. Brief your wife and be confident about the fact that first you will fly the aircraft, always, including talking to ATC, navigating etc… your family are passengers and will understand and feel “you mean business” when you are in control of an airplane they are sitting in.

MedEwok wrote:

How to calm down my wife before and during the flight?

Brief your wife that you are a crew and that she has to be direct and clear. If she is uncomfortable she has to say something. If she senses a kid is uncomfortable, she hast to let you know. Tell her you need to know ASAP and you can take action anytime to resolve it (land!) within a few minutes.
Also, show your family that you are the captain, exerting confidence and that you know what you’re doing. By making clear decisions. By owning up “command”. And by keeping it fun for them, which means keeping some dry ppl theory book as far away as possible. Point out interesting landmarks. Ask them “who wants a circle to the right?” and do one. Who wants a cirlce to the left.. show them how nice it is that you can control this little airplane. I wouldn’t fuss too much about by explaining stuff and doing checklists. You can do that at a later stage of your flying together. Have everything planned well and take them up for a ride, just like in a car. Flying is nice so you got that going for you. After the flight, let them sit at the controls, push some buttons…deploy flaps etc.. My then 1,5 year old loved turning the HDG knob ;).

always learning
LO__, Austria

Patrick wrote:

Please don’t make your wife read the relevant books of PPL theory before going an a flight with you.

Why not? I sometimes get the impression we are from different planets on this board make your wife read”. I said let, and deliberately so. If she is nervous about the whole flying thing, information is the best medicine. Real information, not scary stories from the web. Besides, it is his wife, and they are going to fly “happy family trips” with their kids. It’s not some arbitrary “sharing” customers that are looking for something fun and out of the ordinary we are talking about. If she is supposed to like this, he have to show his wife confidence in his abilities, and his wife has to get involved, supportive and an active participator.

The ideal situation is both are pilots and like to fly small planes. If both aren’t, there is a reason for that. I don’t believe in forcing people into doing things they have no desire to do. Small kids just want to do whatever their mom and dad does.

MedEwok wrote:

If I forget about flying with the family I can basically forget about being anything other than a low-hours pilot without reasonable currency and self-confidence in my skills for the next five or ten years…

That’s the normal situation, and you have to cope with it as best you can. I was super happy that one out of my 3 boys liked flying with me, and on his own, and he wasn’t born until 8 years after I got my PPL. My existing wife comes along every now and then, but only if we are going somewhere to do something, and an hour continuous flight is about max.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
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