Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Winter operations - Ski flying - most suitable aircraft

I’ve done lots of flying on skis, straight skis, wheel penetration skis and hydraulic wheel skis. J-3 Cub, PA-12, PA-18, Citabia, Tiger Moth, Aeronca, C 150, 150HP C 150 TW, C 180, C 185, Found Bush Hawk. Different aircraft and skis for different operations, you have to plan what you need to do. Avoid nosewheel type aircraft on skis altogether, some work, only the Twin Otter seems to work well with a nosewheel on skis. If you are going to fly alone, to a place where you will be alone, chose the lightest aircraft type you can, as getting stuck is a possibility. A tail light enough that you can lift it out on your own, so you can turn the plane around in a tight area could become critical for your departure. I foolishly landed the PA-18 into my home runway, forgetting that turning around at the end of the runway took a lot more space than my trees allowed! Happily, being at home, I could get my ATV to pull it around! I’f I’d been alone and away, I could have been in for a lot of effort!

The operation of the aircraft on skis itself is not a lot different, other than needing lots of space to turn around. A few hydraulic wheel ski arrangements allow you to extend one wheel to aid in a tighter turn on the snow. The differences in ski flying will be the snow, the environment, and your preparedness. During testing of the 150 HP C 150 taildragger on fixed penetration skis, I purposefully landed into 18" of powder snow to test the skis flotation. It was a great poof landing. Lots of blowing snow during my takeoff attempt, but not much acceleration. Happily, I had planned for that eventuality, and chosen the 18" power snow to be that beside a well plowed runway, so I just taxiied over to the runway, and took off. I’ve had the PA-18 (180 HP) into wet snow such that if I stopped in fresh snow, the plane did not have the power to start to move again. I could stop in my tracks, and get going again. I had suspected that situation, and stayed close to helpful people on snowmobiles, who came and shook me going.

If you’re considering landing on unbroken snow, there are all kinds of things to consider, not the least of which is flying over an unbroken surface makes it near impossible to judge your height. Landing near shore on a lake is a good idea, or on snowmobile tracks. If you must land on a frozen lake of unknown snow, it’s vital that you understand the snow before you commit a landing. I’ll fly along and put only one main ski on the snow, and run along for a while. If there is too much drag (aircraft swing), pull it right out, and do not land there at all. If it seems okay after a half mile or so run, I’ll go back around, and put moth main skis in, and run along. I can feel the snow again, and see my previous track. After that, a third two main ski passes, this time, I can look for any water coming up through previously unseen cracks in the ice, or pockets of slush. If I’m happy, a few more touch and goes to make a runway for myself. Then, another look from above for any water or slush over the whole area. If I like it, I’ll land short of my runway, so as to stop up just onto the threshold end, so my known runway is in front of me for takeoff. If staying more than a few minutes, it’s advisable to cut some conifer tree boughs and taxi up onto them, so the skis don’t freeze down. If the wind comes up, or changes direction, consideration must be given to drifting, and the change that could make for your runway – it could disappear! In that situation, the snow in your tracks will be more dense than the snow beside your tracks, so takeoff will be bumpy and difficult to steer. Happily, if the wind has come up, your takeoff run should be shorter.

If you have to tie the plane down on the ice, either ice screws (for mountain climbing) will be needed, or you’ll have to cut holes in the ice, and pass a board with a rope tied to it under the ice. I’ve had to do both, the ice screws are way easier!

A skiplane on bare ice has no friction in any direction. If you stop in the wind, you might not stop. I was once unable to stop to visit friends while flying the 180 on straight skis, as the wind was so strong, that the only way to not be moving was to carry some engine power into the wind. If I shut down, the plane blew backwards (this was before I’d learned to carry ice screws and rope!)

And, with hydraulic wheel skis on your very well known and comfy fixed gear plane, you just converted into a retractable! You now must extra discipline yourself to: “Skis are up for landing on the runway”, or “Skis are down for landing on snow” – ‘same a we disciple ourselves for amphibian flying. Wheelski planes have no landing gear position warning systems – it’s all up to you! A skis up landing in snow will probably be okay, a skis down landing on a dry runway will be bad!

In all my years of ski flying in Canada, I’ve never known of a skiplane for rent, nor “for hire” ski training – it is learned by osmosis, mentoring, or on the job, if you’re hired!

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

Where to get instruction for ski flying ? How long did you need to master the technique ?

There are a couple of clubs doing ski flying training in Norway. It was much more common 20-30-40 years ago than now. I’m not sure if you actually need training. I have no idea really. To me it seems more like a “life style skill” that you learn by “living the life” rather than taking lessons.

I have never tried it. Temporary airfields on frozen lakes are cold enough and white enough for me too

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

I have not heard of a flight school in Sweden that offers that kind of training (yet) but I am sure that you will find many happy ski pilots up in the north. Where there are seaplane pilots and instructors, you will also find ski pilots and instructors. You do not need a flight school for it so you can do it with any knowledgeable person and a suitable aircraft.

ESSZ, Sweden

Pilot_DAR – a superb post. Brought back hundreds of memories of my 3 years flying in Labrador (1971-1973). I had forgotten a lot of the detail you wrote about, fantastic!

Lefty
EGLM

Will this open load of questions on visibility minima 5 seconds before landing or take-off, especially for SEPs?

On a side note, I have seen few helis take-off/land in snow, it does feel a bit illegal ils minima

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Pilot_DAR – thanks a lot for sharing with us your fantastic experience, indeed very useful and interesting aspects to be though.
LeSving wrote:

It was much more common 20-30-40 years

This is exactly the problem today if you speak to senior aviators, they all have been doing at some point ski flying and most of them get instructed by someone else who did this before.
Also, this is why I’m not so keen on learning by mistakes, since it will be a lot much cheaper to be taught by anyone else and NOT in my plane

@RobertL 18C, @Tom32, @AeroPlus, @LeSving and @Fly310, thanks a lot for sending details and advice for possible training facilities.

Until now looks like one may get official training opportunities in France, Italy and probably Norway. I know that I can get in touch with pilots around here, or a bit more north and get some kind of unofficial training, not sure if this will be in their plane.

Amazing that this type of instruction does not exist in Switzerland, since Herman Geiger was one of the pioneers for this type of flying.
I’m also very amazed that Jodel, it was and still is quite popular to put skis on, in spite, it is a low wing aircraft. Wonder why is like that ?

ES?? - Sweden

There is no official training for skis since it is not a Part-FCL requirement. I recommend that you do the initial part in Sweden if that is where you intend to fly. Then you can do extra training in the south.

Remember that language may be a barrier when doing training in another country. Not always nice when your doing tricky flying.

ESSZ, Sweden

In France, you can train for a French mountain rating on skis and another track on wheels. The ski flying is great in the Alps as you land on glaciers and then can fly on skis to altiports like mentioned above. Alex Combes is easy to communicate with in English. I always enjoy flying with him. He is very relaxed, but serious about the job to be done (the flying) and flexible to make arrangements with. There is another school based at Chambery. I have been doing some flying with them as well.

EDLE, Netherlands

I did some ski flying from Bex in Switzerland (back when I could get 2.2 Swiss Francs to the pound…….)
I’m sure it would still be possible.

Forever learning
EGTB

I could only find one club that advertise for ski training (from the NLF main site). It’s done in a PA-18 180 and consists of 5 hours of flying. Link here.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top