PA46 Malibu N264DB missing in the English Channel

GA_Pete wrote:

If however I was Stressed, IMC, trying to get visual, in poor viz, black of night, over a black sea, could I miss the unwinding altimeter?
I think I definitely could.

Wouldn’t this “class” of plane (pressurized, FIKI etc) have some form of autopilot?

There seems to be an assumption by some on this forum that the ice protection systems on GA aircraft will allow them to “punch up to FL200 “ .

May be this is true in light icing but in a comparatively wet moisture laden atmosphere the ice is likely to be very heavy combined with the tendancy to run back before freezing, the result of this is ice that is outside the de-Ice boot protected area disrupting the airflow and increasing the weight of the aircraft.

Giving that the propellor is suffering the same sort of airflow disruption and not at optimum performance we have a recipe for a very sub optimal flying machine.

The rate of ice buildup would truly astonish you, on a particularly wet day at Manchester I watched a piece of ice on a windscreen wiper bolt build from nothing to a ball as big as my fist in seconds , with this rate of ice I doubt if any GA piston engine aircraft would have been able to maintain altitude let alone climb.

This accident looks like the perfect storm to me, with an aircraft that has a modest ice protection system encountering the very worst of moist icing conditions.

I make no apologies for re- stating ICE RESPECTS NO AIRCRAFT.

Implausible perhaps, but how can anyone prove otherwise?

Indeed, a prosecution is hard, because it has to be beyond reasonable doubt. But insurance (civil) litigation is done on lesser criteria.

Wouldn’t this “class” of plane (pressurized, FIKI etc) have some form of autopilot?

Sure… but there are various scenarios why it might not be used:

• many AP installations don’t actually work! You would not believe how common this is in GA – because AP repair is expensive and especially in Europe very very few avionics shops understand autopilots. If a plane lived in Spain for some years it has a high chance of being extra knackered (it’s a culture down there – many previous posts here about being extra careful buying a plane from Spain).

• the pilot may not know how it works. Again you would not believe how common this is, especially looking at the various modes (e.g. setting up a descent at a given VS to a preset altitude).

• if a lot of ice is accumulated, and the ice protection system is not used or doesn’t work (you would be amazed how many planes have holes in the rubber boots; these were routinely discovered at the Annual where I was hangared) then the speed will bleed off as the drag builds up, without any warning (except on the ASI, and historically a number of PA46s were disintegrated in-flight because the pilot forgot to turn on pitot heat so thought the IAS was too low and pitched it down) until the plane suddenly shudders, stalls, and flips over (no stall warning because the stall warner is frozen in solid ice – I get this with my “full TKS” system too, and have had it for real).

• if the boots work on one wing and not another, the plane will likely just flip over suddenly.

• there are wing leading edge illuminating lights so you can see what is going on at night (but lots of planes have them only on the LH side so only the LH wing can be inspected) but these are normally incandescent bulbs which blow out, get corroded fittings, etc, and this may not be discovered for years especially on a plane used in Spain in mostly nice VFR. Few pilots check the wing leading edge ice lights on a preflight.

At night you don’t get much of a chance to spot things… and you really want a plane which is maintained with zero defect tolerance and money being no object.

In this case the sole passenger was likely sitting in the back (the PA46 has nice “club” seating) and was not available to assist in observation.

If the pilot was not experienced on the PA46, the alternate air problem could have been the last straw. Very bad for GA this accident as well as obviously tragic for the people involved.

The PA46 deals with ice well and is as capable as a piston single can be if flown properly. However as @A_and_C points out, it is still really only suitable for light icing and you must also understand how to use all of the systems avaialble to you.

Peter wrote:

If a plane lived in Spain for some years it has a high chance of being extra knackered (it’s a culture down there – many previous posts here about being extra careful buying a plane from Spain)

Off topic but not so. I have been shopping for aircraft in Spain, UK, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Malta as well as the U.S. and I can give you veeery bad examples in all those countries too.

Even then, assuming it was so knackered when imported on the N-reg for a UK operator what is there to say about US and UK cultures if the aircraft is still knackered enough to be a factor in this accident three annuals later?

I did ask the question earlier – can you depart France after dark on a VFR flight plan other than on an approved VFR night corridor?

JasonC wrote:

The PA46 deals with ice well and is as capable as a piston single can be if flown properly. However as @A_and_C points out, it is still really only suitable for light icing and you must also understand how to use all of the systems avaialble to you.

While this may be valid in generic form, it does not apply to this particular flight that took off in clear skies and could have clearly climbed ice-free to ice-free altitudes for the rest of its flight at least until descent to Cardiff

Antonio wrote:

While this may be valid in generic form, it does not apply to this particular flight that took off in clear skies and could have clearly climbed ice-free to ice-free altitudes for the rest of its flight at least until descent to Cardiff

It does apply to this particular flight as apparently they did not do so for one reason or another.

I admit to knowing nothing about football and/or transfers and the monies involved, so not sure if these quoted 15 million quid are ‘real’ money (as in: wired to someone’s account) or a total of various monies paid out over time, but:

- you have a 15 miilion pound asset
- said asset needs to go from Cardiff to Nantes and back within something like 48 hours
- you decide to use ad-hoc (as opposed to scheduled) air transport
- this trip has to be undertaken in winter

Now you decide a SEP (P!!) flown by one of your mates who apparently is a PPL is just what’s needed…..

Am I the only one who’s totally aghast at the decision making process here?

172 Driver.

I can’t see any flaw in your argument.