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PA46 Malibu N264DB missing in the English Channel

Fuji_Abound wrote:

I did ask the question earlier – can you depart France after dark on a VFR flight plan other than on an approved VFR night corridor?

Night VFR corridors are mandatory where they exist. I mean, you can’t get across these areas anywhere apart from corridors.
Where there is no corridor, it is just like day VFR.

These corridors are mainly routes across TMAs.
They tend to disappear little by little.

LFOU, France

With so much S&R logistics and the length of the search, I think the pilot (I bet he is IR rated) just decided to fly low level on his own (cutting RT on purpose?) for long period and probably crashing not far near the UK side?

Why doing so? For the same reasons as not turning back or climbing to controlled airspace (probably avoiding the fallout from operating a 100% dispatch rate flight without an AOC paper or importantly a well equipped aircraft)

I had a hope they have landed somewhere but as things unfolds in this tragedy, one starts to feel the real loss to both football and private/commercial GA !

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

JasonC wrote:

It does apply to this particular flight

I stand corrected, ice protection and aircraft performance limitations may apply to this specific flight’s outcome, but no more so than say light clothing limitations would apply to someone’s hypothermic shock after he chose to walk on the street to transit a few blocks in a Minneapolis -30C winter (as opposed to using the Skyway System )

Is it about available protection or the decision to use one path vs the other?

Antonio
LESB, Spain

JuJupilote – thanks. My question was a little more specific in that I understand NVFR along approved routes works, and NVFR between approved airports, but I was interested in the current position regarding NVFR some distance cross country and then leaving French airspace so it is neither between approved airports or along an approved NVFR route? Obviously you would normally do that on an IFR flight plan which would not be an issue, hence my question about the current position on NVFR in France. In this case the assumption would seem to be this was on a filed NVFR FP, and NVFR through the CIZ, so presumably it was possible to file and take a direct route to the boundary?

“With so much S&R logistics and the length of the search, I think the pilot (I bet he is IR rated) just decided to fly low level on his own (cutting RT on purpose?) for long period and probably crashing not far near the UK side?”

That scenario seems highly unlikely. When the plane sank there might be little left on the surface for SAR to see. If it broke up on impact, many bits would sink over night in rough seas, others would be dispersed.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

172driver wrote:

- you have a 15 miilion pound asset
- said asset needs to go from Cardiff to Nantes and back within something like 48 hours
- you decide to use ad-hoc (as opposed to scheduled) air transport
- this trip has to be undertaken in winter

Now you decide a SEP (P!!) flown by one of your mates who apparently is a PPL is just what’s needed…..

Am I the only one who’s totally aghast at the decision making process here?

I could not agree more …… someone should have warned him what he was letting himself in for.

For an example …

Last year I overheard a PPL talking to an instructor about revalidating his licence ….. ’ I need to do this as i’ve given a flight in an auction of promises ’ ….

It would appear that some people should know their capabilities

Maoraigh wrote:

That scenario seems highly unlikely. When the plane sank there might be little left on the surface for SAR to see. If it broke up on impact, many bits would sink over night in rough seas, others would be dispersed.

Yes, I think it is difficult to have a successful ditch in 2m waves by day or in calm water by night (especially, with no lights due to electrical failure? or weak aerodynamics due to icing?), it will be an impossible in 2m waves by night, this limits the usefulness of carrying a raft….

On debris, there will not be much of chances to find that much bits after one day (even when a 747 crashes in rough open water, investigators were lucky to find one a piece of luggage or two orange boxes from all that 200T load) but SAR were searching the “exact place” between 22pm to 2am, probably weather was not much of help?

quatrelle wrote:

It would appear that some people should know their capabilities

I think the guy here is very experienced than just the “average PPL” coming for a re-validation sign-off…
Personally, I would trust a fresh PPL to make a good judgement call than an ATPL and 40kh “hired” to make this specific flight

I think unless you set clear limits on your flying, you will slip one day irrespective of experience and pilot/aircraft abilities (e.g. no SEP cross channel in winter, no more than 30min in IMC in both SEP/MEP…), I think these should work well if you fly GA for fun and not thinking of it as 100% dispatch rate mean of transport?

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 Jan 23:45
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Anybody know the UK homebase airfield of Malibu N264DB ?

Regret no current medical
Was Sandtoft EGCF, North England, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

I think the guy here is very experienced than just the “average PPL” coming for a re-validation sign-off…
Personally, I would trust a fresh PPL to make a good judgement call than an ATPL and 40kh “hired” to make this specific flight

There is a flaw in this argument as the “very experienced” guy failed on the judgement call and got himself and his passenger killed. Aside from that a fresh PPL is about the worst to engage for such a mission. How many times has a fresh PPL flown at night over water in icing conditions?

My bet is if two ATPLs / professionals had been up front and conducted this flight in IFR at FL200 everyone would be alive.

At last I think it was unfair to the passenger if the risks were not explained to him.

172driver wrote:

I admit to knowing nothing about football and/or transfers and the monies involved, so not sure if these quoted 15 million quid are ‘real’ money (as in: wired to someone’s account) or a total of various monies paid out over time, but:

- you have a 15 miilion pound asset
- said asset needs to go from Cardiff to Nantes and back within something like 48 hours
- you decide to use ad-hoc (as opposed to scheduled) air transport
- this trip has to be undertaken in winter

Now you decide a SEP (P!!) flown by one of your mates who apparently is a PPL is just what’s needed…..

Am I the only one who’s totally aghast at the decision making process here?

No you’re not. Count me in too.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Ibra wrote:

Personally, I would trust a fresh PPL to make a good judgement call than an ATPL and 40kh “hired” to make this specific flight

Snoopy wrote:

My bet is if two ATPLs / professionals had been up front and conducted this flight in IFR at FL200 everyone would be alive.

I agree but it would only take 1. Ibra, that is a ridiculous argument.

Last Edited by JasonC at 24 Jan 03:37
EGTK Oxford
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