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Another crash - Helicopter I-EDIC vs Jodel F-PMGV in Italy

I blame google translation

One pilot told me that if this pilot was Italian he would be getting 7 days because they are all doing this down there

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yes, that was also my impression.

The FIR boundaries don’t always follow terrain features and in a landscape whose topography interferes with VHF radio and radar, flight plans for intra-alpine flights seemed a somewhat impractical irrelevance.

Maybe that has changed as a result of the Italian prosecutor’s action.

I think there was also a misguided perception among some European pilots that “freedom of movement” meant “movement without hindrance, whether bureaucratic or physical”. In practice, the EU’s “freedom of movement” is almost as much of an Orwellian misnomer as the pathetic “common travel area” of the British Isles.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

The article mentions that the instructor had no qualification to practice mountain flying in Italy.

I suppose he holds an EASA mountain rating. So how can he not be qualified? Is there a special mountain rating for Italy?!

EDNG, EDST, EDMT, Germany

Historically I think there was french mountain rating that didn’t matched any existing easa ones.
Italian prosecutor is doing in job by prosecuting, but I feel a lot of injustice here. In the eventuality of a misjudjment of the plane pilot (versus the helicopter one) , there were 2 other experienced pilots in front seat. And PIC name is not known, so how can they get the the point he was PIC.

LFMD, France

So – do I get this right – they are prosecuting someone who was a passenger in the aicraft?

Biggin Hill

Yes, because he was an instructor, and so they believe he was pic. He can’t move out of Italy and lost all his currencies (apparently he was an air France B777 captain.)
Edit: link to the preliminary report: http://www.ansv.it/cgi-bin/ita/Preliminary%20Report%20I-EDIC%20and%20F-PMGV.pdf local copy

Last Edited by greg_mp at 16 Jan 18:22
LFMD, France

I find the argument that an Instructor is in charge of he is on board ridiculous. I have shared aircraft ownership with instructors, and logged time as P1 occasionally with one as pax. I would pay no more attention to anything he said than to another co-owner flying as pax.
It would be different if I had hired the aircraft, and he was employed by the FBO, or was much more familiar with the aircraft than me. But would I then be P1?

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

I find the argument that an Instructor is in charge of he is on board ridiculous

Presumably this allegation is a lot easier to make stick if everybody else is dead.

And making it stick on an instructor means there is a bigger pot of money for the families of the dead, because the instructor’s school would have liability insurance, whereas some random individual will likely have just maybe a house. So there is a huge incentive to establist somebody with an FI rating was acting as an FI.

It is like in the UK where the Civil Aviation Act states that there is no passenger liability unless the pilot is negligent, there is huge pressure to establish this negligence.

Instructor liable as passenger.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Maoraigh wrote:

I find the argument that an Instructor is in charge of he is on board ridiculous. I have shared aircraft ownership with instructors, and logged time as P1 occasionally with one as pax. I would pay no more attention to anything he said than to another co-owner flying as pax.
It would be different if I had hired the aircraft, and he was employed by the FBO, or was much more familiar with the aircraft than me. But would I then be P1?

That is precisely the reason for my instructors to ask me if it was OK to take control of the a/c if situation turns bad while they are P2 and I’m PIC on cross-country flight. Because otherwise it puts them in difficult place.
“Legal beats logic every day” (c) Dr. Wilson

EGTR

The report states that the positions of the people onboard the plane are unknown. Where does the information come from that the instructor was sitting on the back seat?

Last Edited by Supersonic at 17 Jan 06:53
EDNG, EDST, EDMT, Germany
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