Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

A Syllogism

Ibra wrote:

Why 30min? One has to set some random limit and live with it, mine is probably less than that

Why, unless there is icing? I can see how heavy turbulence for longer than 30min might drain your mental capacity quicker than you can, but otherwise on relatively smooth IMC what’s the issue, especially if you have an AP?

I think practice makes it perfect. Before my first IR(R) revalidation, I had viewed the rating exactly as a “get out of jail card”, and used it mostly to just pierce layers (never practiced approaches). Suffice to say that when revalidation came I was miles behind the airplane.
Now with more frequent practice, things are much better, and I don’t really see long IMC flights as an issue. Sometimes I’ll even come back from Paris without using the autopilot, just for fun (and trim practice!) – but of course skydemon tracks will tell!

I think that the time the unpracticed/ unqualified pilot can stay the right way up also depends on the equipment.

It would be much, much easier on a G1000 with synvis than a ropy old suction driven AI with worn bearings.

It is very largely to do with the pitch angle, which is tiny on steam, quite a bit bigger on blue and brown glass and really quite big on synvis.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Noe wrote:

Why, unless there is icing? I can see how heavy turbulence for longer than 30min might drain your mental capacity quicker than you can, but otherwise on relatively smooth IMC what’s the issue, especially if you have an AP?

Yes, fair point on IMC/AP, having just a simple wing leveler makes a whole complete difference (you can fly a heading accurately by cheating with rudder ), the AP does not have to be fancy 2/3-axis for heading/height, or to do VOR/ILS tracking, 90% of mental capacity is around keeping wing level, something automation can take care of easily and has no add “skill value”, even if you practice doing it for 4h you will not get on top of it !

I was referring to hand flying in IMC with shaky needles while doing other stuff (or even something robust that can go wild), personally, I lost control two times in my IMC training (with an instructor on board after long training in clouds), first I stalled while trying to comply with ATC and second turning my head/hand in an awkward position trying to reach something the back seat, that was in simple training environment: full planning, concentration and even better currency than what I have today…

The first case, I think here practice can help, for the second one, I doubt so, anyone can get “incapacitated” trying to search something in the backseat of a typical GA aircraft while doing awkward moves of his hands/head this happens even while setting on the ground, I don’t think those flying airline/military jets have to deal with much of that? maybe it is something people learn about in cockpit resource management or two pilot ops classes

Last Edited by Ibra at 12 Feb 21:12
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

If you really need to look away while hand flying in IMC (and it’s a very bad idea), and you don’t have an autopilot, it is best to trim as accurately as you can, check over a period of say a minute that it’s not going anywhere and then take your hands off the controls while you turn round.

But it’s a very bad idea to do it at all.

EGKB Biggin Hill
14 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top