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Take off in the dark...


Cttime wrote:

I remember seeing a specific requirement for a lighted windcone… Am I imagining things?

Part-ADR is obviously meant to be observed by the aerodrome management, not the pilots/operators. And I have no idea how the above phrase “intended for use at night” would be interpreted if a pilot lands at an aerodrome without wind sock lighting.

Incidentally, while a lot is written in Part-ADR about the specifications for runway and taxiway lights, there seems to be no mention of when they are actually required.

huv
EKRK, Denmark

huv wrote:

Part-ADR is obviously meant to be observed by the aerodrome management, not the pilots/operators. And I have no idea how the above phrase “intended for use at night” would be interpreted if a pilot lands at an aerodrome without wind sock lighting.

Part-ADR is about certification of aerodromes. It is not relevant for aerodromes that don’t need certification.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Does anyone really bother to look at “wind direction indicators” after their first few hundred landings?

In case of a forced landing, or landing out in a glider, do we reject any field which is not suitably equipped?

Or, put another way, is a “sufficient number” for most private airfields actually less than 1?

Come to think of it, has anyone ever seen the two windsocks at Glenforsa not pointing in opposing directions?

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

Airborne_Again wrote:

Part-ADR is about certification of aerodromes. It is not relevant for aerodromes that don’t need certification.

Indeed. It may not be very relevant to the discussion at all. It was just a response to @cttime’s question if there is any mention anywhere of a requirement of a lighted wind sock.

In addition, I have just found that the national rules for my country still applies for non-licenced airfield. Danish BL 3-17;2.2 says (my translation) “Lighting equipment for night operations on private airfields only need to fulfil the following requirements…” and then it refers to runway edge lights, runway end lights, threshold lighting and a lighted wind sock (taxiway lights or obstacle lights are not required).

Whether a pilot could be busted based on that rule I don’t know. We also have national OPS rules about this, but the status is unclear, because our national authority does not make it clear when EU/EASA-regs overrule national rules. Although they do that generally, there are lots of grey areas.

Last Edited by huv at 07 Apr 09:35
huv
EKRK, Denmark

Jacko wrote:

Does anyone really bother to look at “wind direction indicators” after their first few hundred landings?

Yes. Whenever I land at an untowered field even if others are doing circuits to one runway, unless someone provides me a met report (at least a pilot report) including the wind vector I will check it myself. That could mean I fly over the field above circuit altitude or it could mean I fly the pattern in use and check the wind on final before committing to landing.

Sweden

Cttime wrote:

Does anyone really bother to look at “wind direction indicators” after their first few hundred landings?

Yes.

Me too. But isn’t this a thread about night operations? It’s extra vital that pilots landing at night be aware of any wind, as there will be fewer cues on final approach as to the wind, and speed errors are more likely. If for example, the pilot is unknowingly landing down wind, they may see the runway come into view as the landing light becomes more effective, think they’re going too fast, and slow down, when they were flying the proper speed anyway.

For takeoff, is there any reason to not determine the wind direction before takeoff? If surface cues around the airport are few, you’re IMC at liftoff, so the possible effects of surface wind on your ground run should be understood.

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

For takeoff in IMC you either depart on runway (magnetic) heading or runway extended line, neither require wind if you have a GPS or compass that show TRK or HDG

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

If you takeoff in a crosswind, once airborne, to maintain the runway centerline, you’d have to crab. A GPS track would be really handy for that, a magnetic compass less so, but you work with what you’ve got. More to my point, when taking off at night, at an airport with few visual cues on the ground once airborne, you must fly with reference to the artificial horizon, and other instruments to assure that you actually maintain a climb. It can be very tempting to lower the nose to pick up a few knots, or allow a turn to develop, as you don’t have the horizon to refer to. My home runway has zero lights nor other ground features visible for a night takeoff to the east until you’re a couple of hundred feet up, so a night VFR takeoff is effectively IMC.

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

How can you take off in total darkness?

I have done a zero-zero departure, with a crazy instructor at Shoreham many years ago, under the hood. It sort of worked, if holding the heading really carefully. Really carefully, unless doing it on the space shuttle backup runway But most GA planes don’t have a slaved compass system which is that accurate.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

How can you take off in total darkness?

There’s no light, other than runway lights, and your landing light. Once you raise the nose, and are above/beyond the runway lights, there may be nothing ahead on the ground as a horizon reference. Pitch and yaw are instruments only, until you’re high enough to see a further horizon. Off the east end of my runway, it’s several miles of forest or fields before there are any buildings, and even those do not provide a lot of visual cues. I was flying night circuits the other night, and turning crosswind entirely on instruments (as a turn to crosswind is toward fields – much better forced landing opportunity). Along crosswind, I begin to get some surface lights reference.

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada
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