Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Take off in the dark...

I am sure – here – that where there is no RVR reporting equipment the vis is pilot interpreted, even if there is ATC (or other “qualified observers”) present.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter: as said, even the reported RVR can be replaced for the first segment of the take-off run by assessment of the pilot, but he will still need runway lights.

EDLE, Netherlands

AeroPlus wrote:

but he will still need runway lights.

thanks that’s clear now Sjoerd Jan.

W.

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

I am puzzled, does flight visibility from weather report or RVR measured take into account the fact that runway lights are ON/OFF?
Yes, definitely the pilot interpreted ones is “lights and mood dependent”

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

I am puzzled, does flight visibility from weather report or RVR measured take into account the fact that runway lights are ON/OFF?

Flight visibility should not take this into account but RVR should.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Thanks for the clarification, that make more sense

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

SPO.OP 110 specifies… (blah, blah, all good stuff about lights etc.)…

but, for avoidance of doubt, Part-SPO does not apply to 99% of GA. It is completely irrelevant to the OP question about taking off for a private flight from A to B. That comes under Part-NCO.

‘ANNEX VIII SPECIALISED OPERATIONS
[PART-SPO]
SPO.GEN.005 Scope
(a) This Annex applies to any specialised operation where the aircraft is used for specialised activities such as agriculture, construction, photography, surveying, observation and patrol, aerial advertisement.
(b) Notwithstanding (a), non-commercial specialised operations with other than complex motor-powered aircraft shall comply with Annex VII (Part-NCO).
(c) Notwithstanding (a), the following operations with other than complex motor-powered aircraft may be conducted in accordance with Annex VII (Part-NCO):
(1) competition flights or flying displays, on the condition that the remuneration or any valuable consideration given for such flights is limited to recovery of direct costs and a proportionate contribution to annual costs, as well as prizes of no more than a value specified by the competent authority.
(2) parachute dropping, sailplane towing or aerobatic flights performed either by a training organisation having its principal place of business in a Member State and approved in accordance with Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011, or by an organisation created with the aim of promoting aerial sport or leisure aviation, on the condition that the aircraft is operated by the organisation on the basis of ownership or dry lease, that the flight does not generate profits distributed outside of the organisation, and that whenever non-members of the organisation are involved, such flights represent only a marginal activity of the organisation

Last Edited by Jacko at 16 Apr 21:23
Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

Jacko wrote:

Part-SPO does not apply to 99% of GA

Yes, but Part-NCO has exactly the same text in NCO.OP.110(b)(2) “…for night operation, ground lights should be available to illuminate the runway”.

Not long ago I practised landing on a dark runway at my local airport. But it was dark on my request, while ground lights were definitely “available” :-)

Btw, isn’t “to illuminate the runway” a strange term? In my experience, that is not what runway lights do.

huv
EKRK, Denmark

The ‘Rule Book’ or Manual for your airfield will usually cover this subject.

Most that I have read will clearly state that operations outside of the published hours or when the radio is not manned, are not permitted.

At my airfield out of hours operations is permitted (by special permission on the day) but only by aircraft based at the airfield and only in daylight VFR conditions. They even have a special local rule (why?) that says you must land before sunset +20 minutes.

EGLK, United Kingdom

SPO.OP 110 is not only for specialized operations and complex aircraft. Read on and the normal ops and aircraft are covered there as well. Whatever the case, I do remember that take-off without lights at night was legally not possible and now I tried to search for the correct article again. I can imagine that it could be done ok as in the Cirrus I also have synthetic vision plus the infrared camera to see any possible animals/obstructions on the runway ahead of me. Add to that a take-off alternate nearby and it might be possible, but not legal. And since it might not be legal, it is better not done. :-)

I have done zero/zero departures in the past and applied for an LVTO approval with the Dutch CAA down to 125 m under certain conditions at major airports, which would not allow me to do the same from an unlit airfield somewhere else. I did not continue with the LVTO approval as they would charge me about 1500 euro for it and am awaiting a change in the EASA regulations which is apparently to come. I did present LVTO operations in GA aircraft at EASA in Cologne at one time.

Right now, I don’t do zero/zero departures anymore and wait for the minimum VIS/RVR as required under EASA even though it is inconvenient at times if there is a thin ground fog layer. I would believe that departing on a clear night with the moon out from a runway with no lights might be relatively easy to do with the infrared camera, synthetic vision and a taxi along the whole runway to check for obstacles before the take-off, but then again, I don’t believe it is legal and probably better not to get into such things.

EDLE, Netherlands
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top