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Cirrus SR20 D-EXOS Crash Northern Germany

Ibra wrote:

If you are looking for tactical avoidance of weather then you will need an real data onboard “weather radar”

This!

always learning
LO__, Austria

JasonC wrote:

Why will it be hit and miss? Weather radar is incredibly useful to avoid a big cell like discussed.

At GA aircraft speeds the numbers don’t add-up if you fly at 150kts, sooner or later you will hit it as avoidance situation gets “very dynamic”, the weather radar range will be in 30nm, you need a 20nm clearance from a cell that will likely take 15min to build up and die which is almost the time you need to enter/pass it, so that A to B path optimization may not have a solution even with “100% view of current/future weather”…

We all have done it with localized patches of rain and there is no way you can do it “without getting wet” if you fly at 100kts, unless when you keep everything to your left

Of course if flying IMC, the radar is the only tool you have to know what is ahead…being a “VFR pilot” I tend to listen to other traffic (Pireps could be useful here) and try to limit my IMC time to no more than 30min, by contrast human eye VFR visibility is 10km and will do the same as weather radars (most likely both can’t see beyond that one big cell ) and may give you a better strategy (not necessarily the one you like) if you fly at 100kts, if you fly at 400kts a weather radar will have a lot of add value !

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 May 15:53
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Radar data over mobile 4G is typically 5 to 10 minutes old

You will be doing extremely well to be getting 5-10 min old european radar for free. Which site do you use for that?

See this thread for some information on different sources.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

THY wrote:

3G/4G does not work above a few thousand feet.

Depends where – The other day out of iceland (towards the UK) I still had occasional service at FL180 – Enough to send a few whatsapp messages (even pictures)

Yes; in the Alps too. Excellent 4G at FL180 I have even posted photos on EuroGA, uploading the original ~10MB jpegs.

But this is useless. All of Belgium and France has zero connectivity at any level, AFAICT, Vodafone contract. Germany is not quite so bad. You can’t rely on it.

Anyway, this accident does not seem to have any relation to an inability to get airborne data. The stuff was there for all to see, before departure. Some people “just always fly”. Like N2195B said he did, to my A&P, just before his last ever takeoff…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The app I use has -90 min back on history, marketing claim max 10 minutes old on average over all Europe, but more important, also 90 minutes forecast calculations. Experience shows the short 90 minutes forecast is usually pretty good, so I even don‘t care how old actual is. Have to look up the name.

Last Edited by Markuus at 22 May 16:21
Germany

Peter wrote:

Anyway, this accident does not seem to have any relation to an inability to get airborne data. The stuff was there for all to see, before departure. Some people “just always fly”

Personally, I would just fly VFR on that one but will take a long way or short way around depending on how it goes (did 250nm instead of 150nm early this month turning around a similar picture, I was more worried about in-flight notams than in-flight weather ) but I maybe tempted to go in-between for a try in a similar way IFR if I have a Cirrus with chute

My point on weather data is that even you know exactly where/when those cells form you will not be able to plot a straight/curved line that takes you through that in the middle without touching TS let alone when you have uncertainty or no clues (having in-flight weather data will not freeze that weather system or move it out of the way for you and you definitely need speed to get out quickly)

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 May 16:23
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

With the reported good VMC below a general base of 5000 feet, all he needed is his eyes. No datalink, Golzes, radars or anything else.

No technology can compensate for bad judgement (if indeed flying into / below an active CB was a factor in this accident)

Last Edited by Cobalt at 22 May 18:37
Biggin Hill

I would like to add that the whole thunderstorm cell was indeed very visible.
My home base is EDXN, which is situated just east across the Weser river mouth.

You could see the buildups and developing thunderstorm misery crystal clear, and we at Nordholz observed the phenomenon the whole day and pointed it out to our students as a “textbook example of TS development”. To us, the weather development was totally expected, and forecast as such on radio and TV.

I hereby guarantee you that the whole ugly dark mess was visible from miles away, and at Wooge it must have been right in front of his nose, literally.

As last point I want to make clear that I do not know the pilot, aircraft or any details of the flight. My intention was just to illustrate the weather situation.

Last Edited by CharlieRomeo at 23 May 22:24
EDXN, ETMN, Germany

One additional point which was not mentioned yet: the use of a stormescope would have been a help to the pilot too, if the accident was really weather related because of not knowing where the cell was. As far as I know ist the Cirrus in general equipt with stormscope, maybe I‘m wrong.

Anyway reading all the posts, it seems to me, that there must be another reason for the accident beside weather.

EDDS , Germany
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