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What would you do?

Three minutes sounds an awful lot behind an ATR, or any aircraft for that matter. Just the slightest cross wind will blow any remnant of vortices off the runway in seconds. Remember, 2 knots is 1 m/s. In 1 min, the vortices would have moved 60 meters, way off your path. I rather try to visualize/predict them, following the wind, then counting minutes.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

But, if you get it wrong, you might die.

The wind aloft could be quite different from the reported runway wind.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Just a word of support for London Info. Yesterday I was IFR OCAS down the east coast from Scotland at FL70. London Info asked for confirmation that I planned to descend to remain below the London TMA – which was affirmative, but a good prompt nevertheless. One day that might save someone the £200 class…

The same controller was then in dialogue over several minutes with another aircraft over the Channel who was unaware of Danger areas. The controller exercised commendable patience speaking slowly and clearly, coordinated with Plymouth Military and advised the pilot he could safely proceed direct destination. Well done sir.

NeilC
EGPT, LMML

LeSving wrote:

Just the slightest cross wind will blow any remnant of vortices off the runway in seconds.

Recently I was in the car park of Europe’s busiest airport, which is about <1000m from the touchdown zone. It was sunny and no perceptible wind. There was this loud and strange swishing sound, not out of place from a netflix sci-fi series. I could not tell where the sound was coming from, I thought I was going a little nuts. It continued to happened about 30secs after each arrival like clockwork. I stayed for a bit as I quite amazed. The very light cross allowed the wake to drift right down over the centre line, minimally disturbed.

However if your were at they same position I was on the glide path, then the vortex was the least of your worries.

I once went though the wake of 767 that was on base while I departed on upwind in a pa31. (different but very close airports). A very solid thump but no control problem.

Last Edited by Ted at 01 Jun 12:22
Ted
United Kingdom

I’ve experienced the same on a golf course just short of Tenerife airport. Swooshing noise and then sometimes you saw it hit a tree!

EGKL, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

But, if you get it wrong, you might die.

There’s a lot I can do and get it wring and die. The trajectories of wingtip vortices isn’t rocket science. The big birds touch down at the same point every time. The vortices will slowly go down, hit the ground and dissipate. With a GA aircraft just stay above the path, and land just inside, Cross wind will take them away, head wind will blow them back. Tail wind is a bit of a problem, and you can fly straight into them getting too close.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Just a word of support for London Info. Yesterday I was IFR OCAS down the east coast from Scotland at FL70. London Info asked for confirmation that I planned to descend to remain below the London TMA – which was affirmative, but a good prompt nevertheless. One day that might save someone the £200 class…

Yes this is the way LI is supposed to reduce CAS busts without revealing they can see you on radar It’s a “great system”; the airspace regulator holds all the cards, you can never see them, but LI is allowed to offer you little guess opportunities warnings which, if you call them right, mean that you win a little prize (not get busted). Hey ho…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
27 Posts
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