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How good are you at holding altitude and heading over long distances without autopilot?

Timothy wrote:

The question might be “I am trying to persuade my co-owners to invest in an autopilot because I am concerned about how good we are at holding altitude and heading over long distances without autopilot; what are your views?” for example.

Maybe, but I’m no mind reader like you are I mean please. Surely an autopilot will hold the alt pretty well, and let you focus on other tasks. That is what it’s designed to do. For the same reason a B737 will do it even better. That is what it is designed for. It will bring you from A to B, and you can focus entirely on other tasks, any task.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

Maybe, but I’m no mind reader like you are

Saying that something (that is far from obvious to all of us) is obvious is rather more of a mind-reading undertaking.

EGKB Biggin Hill

VFR flyer, just post-PPL – +/- 200ft in my usual weather (thermals), +/-100ft if the air is calm.

EGTR

Usually I can keep it within +-50ft but it has happened that I have climbed 300ft in thermals without noticing it. I have never flown with an altitude keeping autopilot.

ESME, ESMS

Timothy wrote:

Saying that something (that is far from obvious to all of us) is obvious is rather more of a mind-reading undertaking.

The first post ends with this question:

How smooth is your line sans pilote automatique?

Together with the heading, that makes it pretty obvious what this thread is about. In my humble opinion of course.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

arj1 wrote:

VFR flyer, just post-PPL – +/- 200ft in my usual weather (thermals), +/-100ft if the air is calm.

Same here. The A210 is highly susceptible to thermals and easily climbs 100ft in a heartbeat if you catch a strong thermal in summer.

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

I have spent a lot of time flying in flight conditions (including type of plane) where it is pointless to fight lift and sink. In cruise, when the plane is sinking you slow down a little with elevator pressure, but not too much. 5 knots in a slow plane until you regain the altitude. When it is climbing in lift, you speed up a little. You don’t touch the engine controls. It works itself out on the average and you help minimize the altitude variation – but it is what it is.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 17 Aug 13:56

As soon as I’m IFR I really try to nail the numbers (no autopilot installed). It can happen that I deviate by 150 feet or so if there are a lot of up and downdrafts and only when I have my focus on something else, like checking the weather, briefing the approach or copying a long clearance. It’s really a matter of multi-tasking: In my definition that means shifting my focus continuously and never looking at one thing for more than two or three seconds. This results in always only hitting one or two buttons at a time in the cockpit, then scanning the instruments and airspace again. However, if this deviation by 150 feet or so occurs, I deliberately return to my altitude without undue delay.
The point of Silvaire is really important, though. Sometimes it is pointless, or even dangerous to try to maintain altitude. If that’s the case, I’d reduce speed below Va and keep my attitude (plus minus a tiny bit, as he suggests maybe a few knots), but not my altitude. When IFR, I would probably ask for a block altitude but it has never happened to me yet, as I try to ease into IMC flying and avoid continuous flight in solid IMC.
My headings are usually pretty spot on. I like to set the heading bug to my wind correction angle and fly exactly this heading. This way I recognize wind changes when suddenly the CDI moves a bit in one direction. In that case I reset the heading bug to a new heading for a better wind correction and observe the CDI. When I was a VFR pilot I knew about this stuff but didn’t apply it as I do now. There was a big improvement in my accuracy when I got my instrument rating. Maybe you could fly with a safety pilot under the hood for a while until you fly your headings very consciously to maintain a course (and altitude). Or do that with an IRI and suddenly you qualify for an Enroute IR or soon the Basic IR with enroute module. ;-)

I think it’s a great skill to be able to fly so accurately. On the other hand, sometimes I feel that I lost some of that VFR-vibe of just flying along a highway or railway track at low altitude and not caring about all this stuff. :-)
Edit: By the way, when I read your opening post it sounds like you’re doing fine. No one gets that line to be absolutely flat. I remember an article on that topic in AOPA Pilot, where the experienced author/pilot stated that a perfect straight flown line doesn’t exist. It’s merely a continuous ever so slight correction back to your course.

Last Edited by ArcticChiller at 17 Aug 14:26
For me it depends a lot whether I’m in uncontrolled or controlled airspace- since 150hp cherokee isn’t known for its great climbing abilities, I use thermals to get higher and let it drop 100ft when there are downdrafts before correcting.. In controlled airspace I keep the altitude within +/-100ft.
EETU, Estonia

Over 2000 hours VFR in Class G, and very inexperienced in holding altitude and heading. I have to try hard if that is needed.
It depends on the aircraft. The Bolkow BO208C I can trim hands-off, with low hours on it. The Jodel DR1050 I cannot trim hands-off after over 1500 hours. A rented Pa28-181 Archer with “Hershy Bar” wing was very stable and trimmed easily.
Most of my flying is in the hills, including rental in the US.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom
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