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Aircraft (ULM EC-GU1) and Helicopter D-HOTT Mid-Air on Mallorca

172driver wrote:

I suspect (hope) that Timothy said that tongue-in-cheek, as the UK has the worst airspace anywhere coupled with crap / nonexistent ATC (for GA, that is).

Yes, I am sure it was meant to highlight the historical arrogance of the UK re aviation versus its lack of progress in that regard. With particular reference to a very similar accident this year between a helicopter and light aircraft.

EGTK Oxford

LeSving wrote:

ADS-B will never tell you what the other pilots are going to do 10s from now.

Well, it actually does, unless the other one is aerobatic. I fly with ADS-B all the time in one of the most congested airspcaces on the planet and it certainly is a HUGE help. It gives you a vector for the other airplanes so get an idea what they’re up to. Quite often I cannot vget visual with a traffic that’s been called by ATC, but have it on the screen. The downside of ADS-B is that you realize how many other airplanes are out there…. scary. If I don’t forget I’ll take a screenshot next time I go flying.

172driver wrote:

Well, it actually does, unless the other one is aerobatic. I fly with ADS-B all the time in one of the most congested airspcaces on the planet and it certainly is a HUGE help. It gives you a vector for the other airplanes so get an idea what they’re up to. Quite often I cannot vget visual with a traffic that’s been called by ATC, but have it on the screen. The downside of ADS-B is that you realize how many other airplanes are out there…. scary. If I don’t forget I’ll take a screenshot next time I go flying.

I agree. ADS-B is fantastic but only works if most people use it.

EGTK Oxford

aart wrote:

UL and certified GA should come together soon to discuss this. There are various people with their feet in both worlds. I’d be very happy to contribute.

Gracias Aart! Makes all sense.

Truth is in 20 years I have been flying in Mallorca, this is the first mid-air I recall. That however is no excuse to avoid implementing some useful airspace and comm changes like possibly:

  • Raising the class G ceiling from 1000 to 1500ft AGL. This in itself will double the usable vertical airspace.This will also require a further horizontal extension (by <2nm) of the class D CTR of the main airport on the NE and SW end to maintain separation or perhaps a stepped zone 1000-1500ft in that area.
  • Coordinate the UL airfields and LESB traffic in a way that a single frequency for VFR traffic is used over the island with few exceptions (perhaps only traffic pattern?) . it’s not like there would be much more than 20 aircraft on frequency at any one time except rarely.
  • Ensure that when pilots are on TWR or APP frq’s a listening watch is kept on 123.5 while over the island
  • Change the prohibited area to the west of the main airport and the city into a restricted area and make it simply integrated in the CTR class D, so as to avoid making pilots scud run into the mountains when coming from the west in a low ceiling. This could be accessible with a simple ATC clearance.

  • See below a draft diagram with the main affected aerodromes circled, the approximate midair location, and some of those above-proposed changes marked in red or pink

Antonio
LESB, Spain

For the avoidance of any doubt, I was being ironic about the UK. Sorry for any language issues.

The UK has all those characteristics, and it’s not getting any better.

EGKB Biggin Hill

boscomantico wrote:

I am sure not defending vast and low class A airspaces, but I assume you do know how busy the airport gets between June and September? I guess it is one of the busiest airports in Europe during that time.

Yearly total traffic at PMI is 30 million pax , but in July and August extrapolated is equivalent to 55 million pax. Heathrow is 80 million, and I have not checked actual movement data, but average aircraft size is larger, so # of movements in Mallorca’s summer must be similar to LHR average.

It is therefore very important to protect the airspace that this traffic flies in. Hopefully that does not mean we have to kill the rest.

Last Edited by Antonio at 26 Aug 17:25
Antonio
LESB, Spain

Antonio wrote:

It is therefore very important to protect the airspace that this traffic flies in.

But does the traffic actually fly in all that airspace? I doubt.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Thanks Antonio, sensible suggestions. Will take a while before the authorities would adopt changes to airspace but we pilots can change the comms habits tomorrow if we like, so when the dust settles let’s try and get some people together and achieve this.

Airborne_Again: the answer to your question is no. The limit of 1.000 ft AGL is indeed way too conservative in most parts of the island except for the mountains in the North. Having said that, in designing airspace I understand that contingencies are always needed. Think of an engine failure after take-off, seriously degrading the climb profile of a heavily loaded aircraft.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

aart wrote:

Think of an engine failure after take-off, seriously degrading the climb profile of a heavily loaded aircraft.

I could argue that protected airspace is not necessary for this as it is a very unlikely event.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

The helicopter is described as a Bell 206 L3 LongRanger, used for sightseeing flights.

Would it have had TCAS?

ASN

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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