What did I do wrong, 2: UK, getting ATC to accept that one is IFR

Peter wrote:

FL090 were the result of a number of IMCR holders doing precisely this. LC can’t query the pilot’s privileges but they can dump a flight plan which “looks like” having come from an IMCR holder.

That would be an interesting explanation, didn’t think about it.

I imagine the advantage of an I vs V plan, is that the I might “guarantee” you an instrument approach at the other end (if there is one available)

I imagine the advantage of an I vs V plan, is that the I might “guarantee” you an instrument approach at the other end (if there is one available)

Sadly, it guarantees nothing – unless you arrive in the Eurocontrol system i.e. London Control (or Scottish Control, etc) handing you over to the airport with the IAP. For example when I return to Shoreham in this way, they had a phone call from LC and the IAP is automatic. At Shoreham you could always ask for one anyway, because they are “nice” but that’s not the point.

If say you file IFR from Shoreham to Bournemouth, 4000ft, EGKA GWC SAM EGHH, what happens is that LC will chuck it out immediately, so you end up flying towards EGHI (SAM) and have to request a transit from Solent. They can just deny it, and frequently do, or just never call you back.

I have even had EGKA GWC SAM ORTAC EGJA FL070 (firmly in Class A) binned by LC, and of course Solent would not give me FL070; they let me in at 4000ft That is basically outrageous. It’s OK for “us lot” who know how to game the system, and have the 1900ft dogleg planned, but imagine a foreigner getting that.

an interesting explanation

I recall reading a report from one such IMCR holder who thought he could do it below Class A, but LC sent him up into Class A immediately (as one might expect if one knows the UK system) and he had to refuse the climb. Maybe 10 years ago. Hell broke loose at LC; they didn’t know what hit them. Some “countermeasures” were adopted but a few more pilots doing the same really finished it off. Of course from the POV of ATC (well, those who sit on committees, the ones at the coalface are usually nice) this was simply a case of “amateurs” gatecrashing airspace reversed for “professionals”. Throw in the usual anti IMCR prejudices (“the IMCR is a get out of jail card”) and job’s done.

More recently, a CPL/IR holder known to me personally, but one who never flew anywhere for real, did this with the Autorouter when it first came out (2013 or so) and filed an IFR FP right across the midlands. 4000ft or so, of course it validated ATC all along reacted like the USSR had invaded. He sent me an angry email (back then I was promoting the Autorouter everywhere) saying he will never touch it again. His heart rate exceeded Neil Armstrong’s, at times.

But if you stand back and ask yourself: what did these people actually do that’s wrong, the answer is: very little. The UK ATC system is simply buggered, and works only for those who have inside info on how to play it, OR who fly 100% in CAS (New York to Gatwick, 777, etc).

because I was asked by ATC and the handling agent to do so

Indeed; I think that advice was bollocks. An FP means nothing at all. Phoning the airport and booking the ILS (or whatever) at roughly time xxxx will be exactly what you need. Also covers PPR, etc.

Peter wrote:

I think, from much circumstantial evidence, that the changes made some years ago which cause London Control to bin most FPs (for pistons, at least) under about FL090 were the result of a number of IMCR holders doing precisely this. LC can’t query the pilot’s privileges but they can dump a flight plan which “looks like” having come from an IMCR holder.

And what if an aircraft 2000kg+ MTOW files a low-altitude full IFR FP in class A?
How is it going to be charged (enroute charges) if it was dumpted right after takeoff?
Surely you can argue that no service – no fee?
Just curious.

@timothy will know the answer

BTW, bizjets get a rather good service, at low level, UK Class A/D/G. As do the commuter turboprops.

Seems odd that Newcastle Radar didn’t provide a clearance through Class D. They might request you remain clear of CAS while they identified you, gave you a squawk, and then cleared you presumably on track to a waypoint/beacon.

If no radar then negotiating a clearance under a procedural service might have required a heads up before departure.

Calling them up and understanding why clearance was not provided might be useful.

@Joe-fbs,

From your posts, I gather you have an IMC rating / IR (R). What has been written here about the flight plans, in particular the “in the system” ones, is correct, but for day-to-day flying with an IMC rating, you can resolve all your issues by adopting one simple mindset:

Nothing in your day-to-day flying has changed, except you can now fly in IMC

• outside controlled airspace, you can still do whatever you want to do
• you can still ask for, and may even receive, a traffic service
• you still have to ask for clearance to fly in controlled airspace for each individual bit
• onward clearance into the next bit of controlled airspace may or may not be arranged, safest is to ask for it
• if you want to fly a particular route in controlled airspace, or fly a particular approach, request it early, and mostly it will be granted
• filing a flight plan is pointless (unless mandatory, or if you believe in the SAR fairy)

All of the above applies whether you fly VFR or IFR, UNLESS you fly on a Eurocontrol validated and distributed flight plan in the ATS route system, which with an IMC rating, you probably won’t.

So just ask yourself – what would I do if I were flying VFR? and do just that (assuming you can stick to the IFR).

And of course complain vociferously about a denied clearance. The commercial operators have taken away airspace from the general public for their benefit, and are under an obligation to give access, and need a very good reason not to.

Denial of access is a huge problem. Although it is quite rare, it only needs to happen once to a pilot to discourage them from ever asking again, and in turn perhaps even discouraging others from trying when they hear the story.

Hence it is important to make lots of noise when it happens.