Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Technical start-up in IFR

boscomantico wrote:

The point that most pilots fail to grasp: the “start-up clearance procedure” ist not primarily something that is done in favour of the airport, or ATC. It is in place as a favour to the pilot/operator.It’s there to avoid situations where the pilot starts up, and only then finds out about some slot delay or so, requiring him to shut down again.

I agree, but that is a point that much ATC also fail to grasp. I’ve been told off by TWR for starting up on my own in situations where there was obviously no delay.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I know. Many ATCOs like to underline their authority, and many seem to think the IFR startup procedure is there primarily for ATC. That’s why I ALWAYS (submissively) request startup clearance. ATCOs like to be pleased and when you do that, it might later help you get a better treatment from them.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 09 Oct 09:22
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Also, at A-CDM airports, I would NEVER start up without getting clearance from ATC. All this DPI stuff (TOBTm TSAT, etc.) is so utterly confusing, I have not fully understood the implications on your possible time window for startup and for takeoff…

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

Especially in the UK, there are a few more the insist on start up clearance, even for VFR. Land’s End comes to mind.
Some seem to have it merely due to procedural overregulation.

Probably, it make sense for safety at Lands End, actually for any airports where CAT passengers are walking around propellers (pity I did not ask for “hand-prop clearance” @Noe)

Surely, it does not make sense GA airplane in airports where no one walk by foot on the apron (e.g. Lille)

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Interesting. In the US, ATC has no authority on what you do with you aircraft (or car or walking) until you request taxi and cross the yellow line onto an active taxiway. Requesting permission to start your engine is therefore not a relevant practice.

Re hand propping, when flying my first aircraft I once had a lady walk out from her FBO office and tell me I couldn’t do it. She was perplexed when I responded that if she wanted the plane to move, ever, it would be necessary given that no starter was installed!

Last Edited by Silvaire at 09 Oct 12:30

boscomantico wrote:

I have never had a single case (…) where my startup request wasn’t immediately granted.

At bigger airports, ATC seems to have their own idea of the time I will need between startup and taxi, and they routinely deny me startup (requested at a time based on my own estimation) when too early (by their idea). Then they get antsy because I’m not calling for taxi in the timeframe they expect.

ELLX

lionel wrote:

Then they get antsy because I’m not calling for taxi in the timeframe they expect.

OK, but that is because they could not give you a taxi clearance, not because of the startup itself. Started up anyway? Your bad luck, have to wait with the engine running.

That was my point.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

That was my point.

No, it is the other way round.

They deny me startup clearance until e.g. CTOT-15min, which I presume is on an the assumption resembling that I’ll have a taxi time of 5 minutes and I’ll need 5 minutes from startup to asking for taxi clearance, which gets me at “ready for departure” right at CTOT-5min, the earliest time they can issue a take-off clearance.

I call them at e.g. CTOT-22min because my estimate is that I’ll need 10 minutes between startup clearance and being ready for taxi, and the taxi time of 5 minutes, and I tack on 2 more minutes because I’m always late, the frequency will be busy when I want to talk, I’ll get “taxi behind this traffic which will cross in 1 min to cross from left to right”, etc.

So, they make me wait until CTOT-15 min for startup. Then, at CTOT-7min, they are antsy because I should have called for taxi clearance 3 minutes ago already. They start calling me to nudge me for the taxi. As in “CALLSIGN, report ready for taxi”.

ELLX

lionel wrote:

So, they make me wait until CTOT-15 min for startup. Then, at CTOT-7min, they are antsy because I should have called for taxi clearance 3 minutes ago already. They start calling me to nudge me for the taxi. As in “CALLSIGN, report ready for taxi”.

Yes, there is a tight timeline at those airports. You need to start and get ready to taxi quickly. They aren’t thinking about pistons but turbines.

EGTK Oxford

Lionel, again, you did not get my point. Yes, of course they will deny startup before a certain time, but that’s only because they can’t give you a taxi clearance anytime soon. So, the denial is given only for your own benefit of not having to wait too long with the engine running. Other than that, they don’t care if you start up any earlier – it’s your problem (save for any airport-specific rules banning unauthorised engine starts).

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top