gallois wrote:
Isn’t that what you are supposed to have in your MEL?
That is the dog chasing his tail 
I had the impression it’s very simple under NCO: equipment not required for the flight, it can be INOP ! (ignoring maintenance defects in ML.A.403 and ofc having items in NCO.IDE & manufacturer TC/POH)
I have yet to come across someone who has good understanding of MEL & NCO rules for equipment? but here is what I think
- You are the one who establish the MEL for your kind of NCO operation?
- You send notification to your NAA (it’s permit-to-fly nor approval as in NCC & CAT)
https://part-aero.com/en/#part-nco/NCO.GEN.155
An MEL may be established taking into account the following….the MEL and any amendment thereto shall be notified to the competent authority.
Ibra wrote:
What navigation equipment one needs to fly IFR off-airways and outside controlled airspace in VMC?
Under part NCO this is very simple: The navigation equipment you need to perform the flight.
Even off airways and outside of CAS you (have to) plan your flight along some (at least 2: Origin and Destination) waypoints. Those waypoints are fined in a certain way – as it is IFR they are not defined as visual reference to some ground object but by some form of navigation Aid. If they are defined by a GPS location, you need a GPS navigator, if they are defined by the intersection of two VOR radials, you need two NAV-Receivers, if they are defined by a radial and da distance from the VOR you need a Nav receiver and a DME…
That is the new concept introduced by NCO: There is no such thing as minimum Nav equipment but this is defined only by what you plan!
Malibuflyer wrote:
Even off airways and outside of CAS you (have to) plan your flight along some (at least 2: Origin and Destination) waypoints
Just the destination, it’s easy to find your departure airport without nav aids (that is where the aircraft sits with MASTER OFF) and most of them will allow omni/visual departures: as long as you don’t plan to fly back in IMC you won’t need much near the orgin 
Malibuflyer wrote:
That is the new concept introduced by NCO: There is no such thing as minimum Nav equipment but this is defined only by what you plan!
That make sense and in-line with my understanding, I think NCO also distinguish between route equipment and approach equipment (as listed in plates unless flown in VMC), if destination & alternate have “VMC++ TAF” you don’t even need to plan for an IFR approach…
In UK, it’s perfectly fine to fly IFR with 6 pack PFD and take radar guidance en-route followed by SAR/PAR approach (as long as you have VMC TAF at alternate and you can fly on visual nav backup), also, no PBN requirement bellow FL95 in Golf & Delta, long story short: you can have every MFD equipment INOP and still fly IFR (besides Delta ATC rarely give direct to VOR or RNAV points they give radar vectors or own navigation but one day I was given on-track to some VRP, it was OVC004 bellow !!)
Maybe an outlier as most countries require at lease GPS/VOR the moment you touch airspace
Ibra wrote:
Just the destination,
To the extreme: Yes. You still need some navigation equipment to find your destination w/o visual references.
Ibra wrote:
In UK, it’s perfectly fine to fly IFR with 6 pack PFD and take radar guidance en-route followed by SAR/PAR approach
Might be in UK but not in EASA-land: You need the Navigation equipment to fly your planned flight. A (Voice-)radio to get vectors does not qualify as navigation equipment.
In UK, it’s perfectly fine to fly IFR with 6 pack PFD and take radar guidance en-route followed by SAR/PAR approach
In Class G, yes, but these are very narrow cases.
You need the Navigation equipment to fly your planned flight
You do in the UK too.
Yes RAF-style IFR OCAS is a very narrow scope, only for illustration (useless in practice, you will rarely land somewhere nice which defeat the point of having an instrument rating )
A (Voice-)radio to get vectors does not qualify as navigation equipment
Yes you need COM but it does ticks RNAV requirement for en-route IFR either as primary or as backup, even does RNAV1 in some terminal places, as backup for radar you can use a dense set of VOR grids tracked on CDI in IMC or naked eye in VMC…radar is not RNP though !
Isn’t that what you are supposed to have in your MEL?
MEL/MMEL doesn’t apply to NCO according to a NAS (EASA/National Aviation Authority).
Snoopy wrote:
MEL/MMEL doesn’t apply to NCO according to a NAS (EASA/National Aviation Authority).
What national authority is that?
NCO.IDE.A.105 Minimum equipment for flight
A flight shall not be commenced when any of the aeroplane instruments, items of equipment or functions required for the intended flight are inoperative or missing, unless:
(a) the aeroplane is operated in accordance with the MEL, if established; or
(b) the aeroplane is subject to a permit to fly issued in accordance with the applicable airworthiness requirements
„Doesn’t apply“ wasn’t exactly the best wording. As I understand it, a MMEL/MEL isn’t required for NCO or in particular for IFR flight. NCO operators can’t get a MEL approved by an authority. This leads to interesting cases e.g. NCO SPA RVSM approval for which a MEL is required, while the authority will not approve it.
It depends on definitions or what people mean or think in the back of their minds? MEL is pretty straightforward for ATO/CAT as they have NAA approvals of their fleet & manuals but for “Joe Cessna” operated under NCO, the MEL may it may not fit everybody’s mental model
Sticking to simple things helps: in NCO, equipment not required for the flight during planning, it can be INOP !
- if flaps fail and you plan to use a long runway, go for it…
- if your PT heat fails and you plan IFR in VMC, go for it…
