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Poor radio link and a basic service

My understanding from my RT training was that on obtaining a basic service one effectively enters into a contract with the provider. They give you information requested and keep rough tabs on you. You let them know when you intend to change frequency, and talk to them at the waypoints requested.

In practice, I fly in somewhat mountainous terrain and I often find myself falling in and out of contact with them. My radio calls aren't always acknowledged, and I sometimes would like to change frequency e.g. for an ATZ transit but can't sign off with them. It would seem silly to squawk 7600 as the problem is geographical rather than a true radio failure, and you probably don't need any assistance, and if you've previously been assigned a squawk then if you change it you might alarm someone who can see you on SSR but has fallen out of radio contact. In fact, that seems a very silly suggestion that only occurred to me at the end of a night shift.

How do other people tend to manage this? Presumably they realise that if you're flying e.g. over Snowdonia reception may not be the best and don't worry overmuch if you don't report turning overhead Beddgelert as requested. There may or may not be another station within range (not many airfields open at 20.00 on a balmy summer evening), but even if there is, does raising them to pass the message really merit the fuss and mental effort that it may involve?

If planning to cross an ATZ, would you normally just change to ATC and ask them to pass your regards back to the basic service provider? Or would you just change frequency back after your transit? There's also the option (shock horror) of not bothering to get a basic service. But I quite enjoy the practice of making radio calls.

They give you information requested and keep rough tabs on you. You let them know when you intend to change frequency, and talk to them at the waypoints requested.

A Basic Service won't keep any tab on you. Use a Traffic Service if you want someone to keep tabs on you.

How do other people tend to manage this?

Climb higher.

If planning to cross an ATZ, would you normally just change to ATC and ask them to pass your regards back to the basic service provider? Or would you just change frequency back after your transit?

Initially request transit with FIS / LARS. One of the scenarios below happen:

1) If the ATZ has approach/tower they contact the local controllers, co-ordinate with them and you remain on their frequency while transiting the airspace. Alternatively you are asked to switch to the approach or tower frequency instead (your details have been passed). When leaving their airspace they hand you back to FIS / LARS.

-OR-

2) They don't contact the local controllers. They ask you to freecall instead. After transiting you freecall back to FIS / LARS.

Hence you might save yourself a lot of workload by remaining outside ...

My understanding from my RT training was that on obtaining a basic service one effectively enters into a contract with the provider

I think the word "contract" was some UK yellow jacket type going way over the top. There is no "contract" with ATC. They offer a service (or not) and you need to work with them at a level implied by the service. For example under a Basic service you don't need to tell them you are changing your altitude or track, but you are supposed to tell them if changing frequency. Under a radar service (now called Traffic service in the UK) you do need to tell them. The foregoing is for Class G. In CAS you will be under a Radar Control Service anyway.

It would seem silly to squawk 7600

If you are on some service but lose radio contact, but you are in Class G, no need to set 7600. That is only in CAS, where radio contact is mandatory.

There's also the option (shock horror) of not bothering to get a basic service.

Indeed

I never call up anybody unless they have radar. I normally fly with a listening watch, which might be London Info 124.6 (in the southern UK). Around London one normally calls up Farnborough who have radar so even if it is a Basic service, they can see you so they leave you alone.

That's why flight in France is so peaceful. They can all see you on radar, so they leave you alone.

But I quite enjoy the practice of making radio calls.

Fair enough (many do) but with London Info you just make work for yourself because while they have radar they are not allowed to say so openly (because they are not radar qualified ATCOs) so they keep asking you for ETAs to waypoints.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

My radio calls aren't always acknowledged, and I sometimes would like to change frequency e.g. for an ATZ transit but can't sign off with them.

I'd say just change to whoever is your next or more important point of contact.

I had a situation a few weeks ago coming back from France, and had established contact with London Information and squawked 1177 (standard non-unique code for them). I reported mid-channel but got no response. Tried a few more times, and also Com2, but no response. I was at 5000ft and never heard their response to anyone else either. Nevertheless I wanted to speak to Manston Radar to get a radar service near Dover so just did a blind transmission, changed, and squawked 7000. I didn't want to waste much more time over it.

Couldn't agree more...

In Class G, you are on your own and you need to manage your "stuff" yourself. A two-way radio contact actually gives you very little.

UK PPLs are trained to call up everybody and read out War and Peace. It makes for a lot of work and is pointless.

People call up some grass strip like Goodwood for a Basic Service

Even when crossing national frontiers, when radio is normally mandatory, sometimes one can't do it. On a nice day London Info can be very busy. I believe there is some successor to the 1960s RAF Fighter Command where you have a load of poor sods in some bunker watching radar returns (I know it exists because IBM openly advertise the software for matching up radar returns with flight plans and other stuff, for national security purposes) but there are so many holes in the system that if you are flying from say Le Touquet to Old Buckenham, nobody is going to care if the first call you make is to Old Buckenham...

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I've found a Basic service quite useful from Farnborough or London on several occasions. A couple of times reminding me that I was getting close to CAS (which hopefully I wouldn't have busted, but a helpful prompt). Once providing me with weather at Le Touquet when en-route. Other times useful just to get the latest regional pressure settings etc.

I'd say just change to whoever is your next or more important point of contact.

I recall one of my many instructors getting a severe bll*ing for not having signed off Basic service from an adjacent unit. To be fair, he did make the call to change frequency but didn't check that it was acknowledged. In some ways, this is comforting to know that controllers would be concerned if you drop off the frequency unexpectedly.

UK PPLs are trained to call up everybody and read out War and Peace. It makes for a lot of work and is pointless.

That was exactly my training, and I recall my first cross-channel trip when we did exactly that.

But now I've become more relaxed about that and often just have a listening watch.

When in the south coast recently, Farnborough (who can presumably see me on Radar) suggested I briefly speak to the local nearby airfield for traffic information (I was outside their airspace, but quite a lot of actvity). Kept the Farnborough squawk while doing do. Presumably, this would also help local aircraft be aware of my presence, but of course the local airfield doesn't have radar. To be hinest, I'm not sure whether fiddling with radio frequencies and talking on the radio was a distraction or help compared to just looking out the window.

..had established contact with London Information and squawked 1177 (standard non-unique code for them). I reported mid-channel but got no response.

I recall a Le Touquet trip (last year I think) when London Information wasn't operating (presumably due to staff shortages or something). I was the first to radio in when they came back online. I'd always want to be in 2-way radio contact for water crossings, but would use someone else if London are too busy on frequency.

FlyerDavidUK, PPL & IR Instructor
EGBJ, United Kingdom

UK PPLs are trained to call up everybody and read out War and Peace. It makes for a lot of work and is pointless.

I remember when I first did a NAV exercise round the London Stansted boundary, my instructor had me say "G-xxxx, is a PA28 on a VFR flight from xxx to xxx (it was a circular route) via xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, and xxx, altitude 2300, QNH xxx....". Especially when your new to this, and flying at the same time, this is potentially over a minutes worth of R/T, and mostly unnecessary.

Now if I do the same route I would give only my first turning waypoint to the controller so he/she had a rough idea what I was up to and the R/T is max 20 seconds. When I was training I used to write down the whole Shakespearian monologue in Notepad so I can try and commit it my head, and be a bit more 'fluent' when regurgitating it (the monologue that is) all out over the radio. Seems like an awful waste of energy now I look back.

In Class G, you are on your own and you need to manage your "stuff" yourself.

An exception to this of course is Flight Following in the USA which sorts out everything for you with handovers all the way. But they have contiguous Class E over there.

They also have a few other things..... like a nationalised (taxpayer funded) ATC.

Widespread Class E is great but it will never happen in the UK because of the cost recovery requirement. Class E is CAS for IFR so you then need to provide H24 ATC coverage for the IFR clearances. At some £1M/desk annual cost for a radar desk, it would cost of the order of £10M/year to cover the UK in US- or French-style Class E.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I hear route charges in the USA and just about everywhere else on the continent (with the exception of Switzerland) is considerably cheaper than the UK.

What does that say about use of Class E?

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