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The cult of flying the whole final approach at the minimum speed

I do think you’d want to leave flaps at one setting while attempting to land with no elevator.

Beyond that, I’ll just say that not all aircraft respond in the way described to adding power. My current plane has very little coupling between power and AoA at any speed – it just accelerates or decelerates, even at low airspeed. Very different for a guy who learned to fly in a Luscombe that would slow down and climb (increase AoA) with increased power in almost any circumstance, due to downwash on the tail, unless you retrimmed.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 11 Sep 17:29

Malibuflyer wrote:

What exactly is the requirement?

Sec. 23.145

Longitudinal control.

………
(e) By using normal flight and power controls, except as otherwise noted in paragraphs (e)(1) and (e)(2) of this section, it must be possible to establish a zero rate of descent at an attitude suitable for a controlled landing without exceeding the operational and structural limitations of the airplane, as follows:
(1) For single-engine and multiengine airplanes, without the use of the primary longitudinal control system.Quote

Silvaire wrote:

It’s hard to understand how that is done with both power reduction and flaps provoking a nose down trim change.

Flaps provoke a nose down pitch when extended (Cessna 150), and power application will raise the nose. The two forces can be used in opposition to each other. I just did this a few minutes ago to the top of the flare with no problem. Pedals, throttle and flaps only. It wasn’t quite the quoted 172 procedure (as I was not intending to land without applying elevator control) but from cruise at 80 MPH, zero flap, to top of flare 55MPH 40 flap without touching the control wheel nor elevator trim – no problem.

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

My current plane does not typically raise its nose with application of power, but the elevator trim is virtually as powerful as the elevator control on many planes and could be used to land the plane.

Silvaire wrote:

My current plane does not typically raise its nose with application of power,

Even if you trim to fly level near VS, say it is flying level at VS+5kts on 80% power and you go 100% power?
I would be surprised nose goes down and speed increases, it will makes the ideal aircraft for power ON stall recoveries with more power, no need to move stick forward to install it

Last Edited by Ibra at 11 Sep 18:27
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

Even if you trim to fly level near VS, say it is flying level at VS+5kts on 80% power and you go 100% power?

A little, but not a lot. The nose doesn’t go up or down with added power, it just stays where is was, more or less, in comparison to my previous Luscombe and Cessna experience.

When I first got it in 2010, I inadvertently ended up on a low extended base leg at speed well over cruise because I was watching for merging downwind traffic and meanwhile adding power to arrest a sink rate. It didn’t go like I expected… and the lack of aural feedback from the CS prop didn’t alert me to high airspeed. In the end I looked at the ASI, closed the throttle and pulled the stick back to climb to the intended height and speed. I learned about flying from that

On that plane, you have to use both power and elevator to arrest sink whereas on my Luscombe you just added power and the sink rate stopped without elevator input.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 11 Sep 19:01

‘Planes are different, you’ve got to get the feel of each. When I was checked out on the Tiger Moth on skis, I was setting up for turn to base. I closed the throttle, and it promptly stalled, and dropped the nose. It slowed so quickly, and I had not pushed the stick forward to force the nose down. My check pilot in the back just laughed!

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada
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