skydriller wrote:
Our aeroclub is owned and run by members for its members – it is certainly NOT a commercial operation.
The aeroclub as a whole is not a “for profit” operation. However, the activity of “vol découverte” is a commercial operation, in the same way as the local amateur football club may not be a “for profit” operation, but their activity of doing an afternoon picnic and selling hamburgers / hotdogs as a way of raising money for their “not for profit” purpose, is a commercial operation.
lionel wrote:
The aeroclub as a whole is not a “for profit” operation. However, the activity of “vol découverte” is a commercial operation, in the same way as the local amateur football club may not be a “for profit” operation, but their activity of doing an afternoon picnic and selling hamburgers / hotdogs as a way of raising money for their “not for profit” purpose, is a commercial operation.
Yes, that’s what I meant. I’ve edited my post to clarify.
There’s legal precedents for looking at it from the customer’s point of view. If the Club offers flights, for which you pay, you will see it as any other purchase from a business. The management have responsibility for the aircraft and pilot supplied.
Introductory flights are specific privileges of airclubs that can take some people into the air for money, but they have a restricted amount of hours versus their total number of hours, and I think that all members cannot do that. Actually I thought that only FI can do.
In our clubs, they do a very little amount of hours, knowing that most FI doesn’t want to do it, and Wingly is very active in Cannes.
greg_mp wrote:
Introductory flights are specific privileges of airclubs that can take some people into the air for money, but they have a restricted amount of hours versus their total number of hours, and I think that all members cannot do that.
The number of hours must be “marginal”. It is up to each national authority to determine what it means. The Swedish CAA has said at most 8%.
Introductory flights are regulated by Article 6(4a)(c) and NCO.GEN.103 of the Air Ops regulation which doesn’t say anything about pilot qualifications but does permit the national authority to make additional conditions.
It must be a marginal activity, land and depart at same aerodrome, while primary aim is not revenue but supporting interest for aerial sport flying, and I believe it has to be a DTO or ATO, meaning there is an organizational structure with nominated postholders.
Thank you @airborne_again for the continued valuable contributions!
The case in germany some years back and now this, and there were probably others as well that were of lower profile, not a good track record :(
Yes the number of hours for the “vol decouverte” is limited to around 10% of the number of hours flown within the club per annum. Pilots need to have a PPL at least and have done more than 25 hours in the last 12 months. The other regulations such as currency and 90 day rule also apply. The pilot is nominated by the club for insurance purposes. Flights are limited to around 20 mins and must start and end at the home base. Vol découverte is the new name for what we used to call a “baptême de l’air”.
It differs from the "vol d’ initiation " which must be carried out by an FI and is an introduction to possible student pilots. They will probably get to take the controls of the aircraft during such a flight. There is no limit to the number of hours devoted to “vol d’initiation” in a year.
At my local club the majority of the time allowed for Vol découverte is taken up by schools and paid for by the local communes and also organisations such as the Kiwanis. It’s as much about being a friend to the local community as it is about being a commercial activity. It is not what one would call profitable as it just about covers aircraft time and fuel.
lionel wrote:
The aeroclub as a whole is not a “for profit” operation. However, the activity of “vol découverte” is a commercial operation, in the same way as the local amateur football club may not be a “for profit” operation, but their activity of doing an afternoon picnic and selling hamburgers / hotdogs as a way of raising money for their “not for profit” purpose, is a commercial operation.
Just as GASCo is a charity (and thus not for profit) but running the Airspace Infringement Awareness Course for the CAA is clearly a commercial activity.
;-)
Snoopy wrote:
I believe it has to be a DTO or ATO, meaning there is an organizational structure with nominated postholders.
It doesn’t have to be a training organisation. It can just as well be an “organisation created with the aim of promoting aerial sport or leisure aviation.” But in any case there must be a person specifically responsible for the introductory flight ops.
gallois wrote:
At my local club the majority of the time allowed for Vol découverte is taken up by schools and paid for by the local communes and also organisations such as the Kiwanis. It’s as much about being a friend to the local community as it is about being a commercial activity. It is not what one would call profitable as it just about covers aircraft time and fuel.
Same with our aeroclub too. Certainly not a money making scheme.
It appears our chief instructor has augumented the rules a little too. Not a problem in my case.
Regards, SD..
