@Airborne_Again absolutely true.I don’t know the set up of the Arcachon club as we come under different safety regions but I would suspect the safety officer is more someone who takes on the role of information officer passing safety related issues on to the club members from the regional safety person. They have no power other than to point out if a safety related issue needs communicating. There will probably be a committee member responsible for ensuring each aircraft has its 50/100/ annual checks etc on time and a President who takes overall responsibility for all matters within the club and things like ordering fuel or talking to the Maire’s representative about mowing the taxiways or repairing the grass strip. Not a job I would want to take on. In this case it will be more than likely the President who has to deal with the investigators, the DGAC, OSAC, the family, insurance company the public and the town hall.
Jujupilote wrote:
A family was depleted in this crash, in a plane managed by a club, flown by a pilot allowed to make discovery flights by this club (clubs now must make a list of discovery-flight-approved pilots).
Sorry, I misread the note on aviation-safety.net and took the pilot to be the father — not that they were separate persons.
Yes, indeed, if this was an “introductory flight” in the sense of the EASA regulations, then the club was the operator.
Jujupilote wrote:
If the prosecutor wants to, the president and the safety officer of the club can take criminal sentences.
WOW! Does that mean in France the PIC is, in fact, not the PIC? I cannot see how a club – non-commercial operation – can be held responsible in this scenario.
Edit: just saw @Airborne_Again’s post, but I still fail to see how the club could be held responsible, except for an mx or licensing issue.
It will depend on local (French) law.
For example, in the UK, the operator and the pilot are jointly and severally liable. This incidentally also means that in a non Ltd Co syndicate each shareholder is liable for a crash. With an airliner crash, the pilot is (obviously) indemnified somehow otherwise the result would be farcical, although the Germanwings one might be stretching that a bit…
I understood the Arcachon accident flight was a “vol decouverte”. This is basically what in the UK is known as an “experience flight”.
In France this is a ~30mins flight that can be undertaken by aeroclub pilots, who must have a minimum number of hours and a minimum currency – I think it is minimum 300TT and 30hrs last 12months – Pretty sure thats what my aeroclub asked me when I was authorized to do them by our chief instructor.
Regards, SD..
172driver wrote:
Edit: just saw @Airborne_Again’s post, but I still fail to see how the club could be held responsible, except for an mx or licensing issue.
Because doing introduction flights is a commercial operation that may be carried out with PPLs and without an AOC by a special derogation, for the purpose of generating interest in the club (or flight school) activities.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Because this is a commercial operation that may be carried out with PPLs and without an AOC by a special derogation, for the purpose of generating interest in the club (or flight school) activities.
@Airborne_Again : Our aeroclub is owned and run by members for its members – it is certainly NOT a commercial operation.
Google “Association loi 1901”
Regards, SD..
A teacher was sentenced yesterday to a suspended prison sentence because she gave a pancake to a 6 yo kid who was allergic to milk and died afterwards. She had been told a few month before but the poor kid told her it was ok because at home his mom made him pancakes without milk.
What was said to be a typical US drift is now well established here.
They will always find somebody alive and responsible. And the EASA system is great for making plenty of non EASA people responsible for safety !
This could endanger the club system and favor a syndicate system.
Another fatal crash today : a homebuilt crashed in a village. But the pilot is the only casualty.
skydriller wrote:
Our aeroclub is owned and run by members for its members
It was a “trial flight” for general public who are not club pilots or members?
Allowed without CPL/AOC in “clubs” as long as it is a “small revenue”
When I was in France pre-EASA, I used to carry public members on trial local flights with Brevet de Base and pax endorsement within an Aeroclub, now in the UK, I can do that in Tiger Moths or Gliders but one has to think about his own liability…
It seems to me that the borders between "private’ and ‘commercial’ ops are much more fluid in Europe than in the US. A ‘vol decouvert’ would probably fall under charity flights which are allowed to be operated by a PPL but very limited in scope. In FAAland there’s a pretty hard line between NCO and commercial ops, also reflected in the vastly different insurance premiums (e.g. PPL renters vs CPL ferry flight insurance).
