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Under what conditions will your plane never get off the ground, even if loaded within W&B?

With say a PA28-140, it will probably never lift off…

Would agree that not a high DA performer, but the slab wing PA28 is a perfectly acceptable farm strip animal as long as conditions are not soft and no fences along the runway. In fact it is one of the reasons the Arrow II has a nice following, the slab wing being happier on shorter strips than the, arguably more aerodynamic taper wing.

Oxford (EGTK)

Dimme wrote:

f the airplane does not conform to the performance presented in the POH, then it is not airworthy. If gear down performance is not presented in the POH, then whether gear is up or down should not affect performance significantly during a takeoff/landing. If it does, then the aircraft is not airworthy.

US aircraft do not require a POH, they require an AFM, for which the GAMA standard POH satisfies the requirement. Section 2 of a GAMA standard POH lists the limitations and is approved by the FAA. For most GA aircraft, the rest of the POH is not approved by the FAA and does not determine airworthiness. My Bonanza came with an AFM that is about 15 pages of information on an 8 1/2 inch paper document. The entire AFM performance section is one page and only covers a very limited set of conditions.

§23.2620 Airplane flight manual.
The applicant must provide an Airplane Flight Manual that must be delivered with each airplane.

(a) The Airplane Flight Manual must contain the following information—
(1) Airplane operating limitations;
(2) Airplane operating procedures;
(3) Performance information;
(4) Loading information; and
(5) Other information that is necessary for safe operation because of design, operating, or handling characteristics.

(b) The following sections of the Airplane Flight Manual must be approved by the FAA in a manner specified by the administrator—
(1) For low-speed, level 1 and 2 airplanes, those portions of the Airplane Flight Manual containing the information specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section; and
(2) For high-speed level 1 and 2 airplanes and all level 3 and 4 airplanes, those portions of the Airplane Flight Manual containing the information specified in paragraphs (a)(1) thru (a)(4) of this section.
KUZA, United States

Old aircrafts have “placards limitations planted in the cockpit” and that’s it, pilots had to make their own numbers and judgement
Placard limitations are those in TCDS limitations, these get incorporated in AFM that goes into some POH sections
No point talking about airworthiness or legality by sole reference to full POH, better call it “good POH airmanship”

If one is going to wet long grass in an IFR tourer, take the biggest ground roll in POH and multiply by 5 and see if that works, if one is going to a dry tarmac with no obstruction, take the lowest POH number and see if you can beat it by a factor of 2

Last Edited by Ibra at 16 Sep 12:48
ESSEX, United Kingdom

What would it take to make a TB20 not get off a tarmac runway (assuming infinitely long)?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

What would it take to make a TB20 not get off a tarmac runway (assuming infinitely long)?

Field elevation inxs of 8k ft and OAT inxs of 30C.

In the real world taking ff from Big Bear (L35, FE 6752ft, TORA 5850ft) on a really hot day you would probably make it, but the cows at the end of the rwy might get quite big in the windshield ;-)

172driver wrote:

In the real world taking ff from Big Bear (L35, FE 6752ft, TORA 5850ft) on a really hot day you would probably make it, but the cows at the end of the rwy might get quite big in the windshield ;-)

Been there, done that. Given the relative power required to fly versus roll (assuming a paved runways) it is not so much the length of the takeoff roll that matters as what happens once you are airborne. In this case it’s fortunate that there is a large flat lake at the west end of the runway.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 16 Sep 15:20
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