Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

What exactly causes Eurocontrol tracking to start and end?

lionel wrote:

London Info didn’t put the 1177 squawk in the EuroControl squawk coordination database, and so EuroControl didn’t have the information that this squawk was the same flight?

But would the Eurocontrol computer deal with 50 odd a/c squawking the same 1177? 1177 is used by all a/c speaking to London Info.

Nympsfield, United Kingdom

Actually, on second thought, Eurocontrol doesn’t have its own radars. It obviously gets the radar feed for the position reports from the ANSP. So it is NATS that stopped giving position updates into the Eurocontrol database, possibly exactly because the flight had a non-unique transponder code, and they don’t take the Mode S registration into account?

ELLX

Yesterday I flew IFR from La Rochelle to Kilrush EIKH (for VFR arrival).

To stay below the freezing level I descended below controlled airspace in the UK part of this flight. No tracking appears from just after leaving controlled airspace at SKERY until reaching the Shannon FIR at SLANY. Then tracking resumed briefly, there were a couple more position reports, I do not know at what point Shannon decided I was no longer IFR. So UK tracking seems to apply a different principle.

Bluebeard
EIKH, Ireland

Having seen more data points, I reckon the tracking is based on

  • initially, the issuance and your setting of the Eurocontrol-issued squawk, and
  • until that squawk, or some other “Eurocontrol group” squawk which you may have received enroute, is un-set by you

The act of picking up an IFR clearance doesn’t do anything i.e. ATC doesn’t have a button called "IFR"* It must be just the squawk setting that starts it off. And same when cancelling IFR (whether formal, or the UK-style “silent IFR clearance theft” which you get when you get handed by France to “London 124.6”) which does not terminate tracking if you retain the squawk. I have on occassions retained the IFR squawk all the way to tarmac, when going straight from France to Shoreham without calling “London 124.6” who would have issued some VFR squawk, and found that the tracking continued all the way down.

* It would be great to hear from an ATCO what exactly happens when traffic starts or ends IFR. What does he/she do in the system, at that point?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It does not explain why I see tracks on 1000 in France (they occasionally give this for ModeS IFR within France bellow FL200 on EuroControl FPL), it’s surely not the EC squawk, probably French ATC radars do some ModeS mapping before sending tracking to EC/AR?

I have flown once missed IFR approach in Melun before going VFR to Etampes on 7000, it showed whole track, so surely not linked to being on “IFR clearance” nor “being on EC squawk”, same on few Z/Y FPL from Etampes, I gather it’s ModeS but will be good if an ATC can confirm?

When flying France to UK, the tracking does seem in-line with being on “airway squawk”, so I assume it pairs up EC squawk AND some ATC radar feeds before sending tracking to EC/AR?

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 Oct 14:31
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Doesn’t Eurocontrol just send a bill to everything over 2 tonnes which flies on a flight plan.
I knew someone with an Aztec based at Shoreham and he was constantly sending bills back telling them he was VFR not IFR.

France

Another data point yesterday Melun to Toussus on night IFR, no one was in Melun TWR and CTR was Golf, I called Orly by phone for start up, they could not fetch my Eurocontrol FPL & TXP Squawk code but they kindly approved the start up slot, asked to set 7000, altitude, frequency, heading to join controlled airspace

I went for uncontrolled IFR departure (VIS3000 & BKN004), then I got vectors as soon as entered controlled airspace, few minutes later ATC managed to retrieve FPL & TXP and by then Auto-Router tracking started

For my lost FPL, I wonder if that has to do with back-to-back I-FPL with 20min delta in between? or going missed on first approach? in UK, going missed on approach with EC TXP code keeps the I-FPL alive (it seems the case in France as well?)

While ago, Achim, told us he removed ability of users to see EC TXP codes in AutoRouter, UK NATS complained a lot about that !

Long story short: my IFR trackings in AutoRouter = EC TXP code or 1000 (via ModeS in France) with ATC Radar feeds

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 Dec 12:53
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Did you again not do the prescribed visual circling at Melun, naughty boy?

Out of interest, how did you activate the lights at Melun? PCL? Does it require some prior arragement with the airport operator?

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

No authorization for PCL, just turn up (use after 23LT and night training require PNR)
Parking, taxiways & PAPI lights are switched off unless the locals are flying

boscomantico wrote:

Did you again not do the prescribed visual circling at Melun, naughty boy?

Well I paid my due and I did as per the book: I went missed from 500ft on the first one, when passing overhead, I saw enough runway lights and visual clues to inspect runway surface, judge wind and read the signals (just like with day lights), then I duly checked that no one else in circuit and gave priority to anyone not on frequency (even if they fly NORDO VFR at night with BKN004), the second time I felt entitled to have the runway for myself…the last MVL I tried at night was at Ouessant, very philosophical the moment you go off runway axis, I had to work hard to make that one: as per AD night permission waiver when no AFIS is around

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 Dec 14:28
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I got two interesting data points this weekend.

The tracking breaks in the same place there but this is not related to a squawk change; there was one on the way out but not on the way back. And at FL090/FL070 it obviously wasn’t a loss of radar contact. So something else is controlling it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top