Peter wrote:
Like I said, can happen anywhere. Europe’s airports are mostly not “public” which is almost entirely a US concept.
It doesn’t even have to do with “public” or “non-public” airfields. The airport owner/operator is responsible for the serviceability of the airport. If the airport operator tells ATC that an aircraft can’t land there, I don’t think than anywhere there will be a content discussion on the why. It would actually be a significant danger to safety if ATC would discuss with the airport operator why the aircraft must not land and if perhaps it might land anyways. That has nothing to do with who employs/pays ATC.
If the airfield operator had actually the right to deny landing can be discussed after safe landing at the alternate.
And just imagine what happens at a German airfield if ATC figures out that the “Flugleiter” needs to grab a Coffee ;-)Niner_Mike wrote:
I was refused a landing in France recently because I had not informed Customs
That happened to me once in a very positive way on my way back from Lugano – ok, who actually could know that Lugano is a Swiss and not an Italian city ;-) – the Flugleiter of a small airfield told me “obviously you can land here but really can’t imagine you want to…”
This subject caused a bit of fuss at my local (large-ish) airfield last year. They had a NOTAM saying that during certain hours RFFS would be reduced and the airfield would be unlicenced. After being refused a start clearance from ATC we contacted the airport manager who was absolutely mindblown that we didn’t require a licenced airfield (not sure how they thought we were getting in and out of the nearby grass strips). It all became a bit messy as they insisted that the airfield was NOTAM’d closed, (when it wasn’t) and refused to accept there was a difference between unlicenced and closed.
I’ve heard an aircraft refused landing permission because they hadn’t PPRed. I was approaching to join and land, with no problem as I’d PPRed.
I was refused a landing in France recently because I had not informed Customs of my arrival despite coming from another Shengen country (Belgium). I had missed a recent verbose COVID NOTAM. I had to divert to Marseille and fork out 150 eur or so. My passengers had to pass Customs. They had no interest in seeing my passengers and openly wondered why some Belgians suddenly appeared in their office.
This diversion also prompted both the Police ànd the Gendarmerie to conduct two complete ramp check, including searching our complete luggage and paperwork: all was OK, including our COVID paperwork :)
Peter wrote:
In practice anybody at the airport can tell ATC to decline a landing or takeoff clearance, and this applies anywhere in Europe. I’ve had a landing clearance refused in Italy, for example, because the OPS staff claimed they didn’t receive the PN.
Something at the back of my mind tells me at a public aerdrome this is not so. I accept in practice ATC will do what they are told, but I seem to recall only the owners can refuse a landing during published operating hours, and in theory there should be a clear direction from the owners on record before ATC refuse the landing. I suppose in theory the point being any little trumpted up administrator doesnt actually have this power. Of course the commander can call a Mayday and land regardless if appropriate.
but largely the UK reality.
Like I said, can happen anywhere. Europe’s airports are mostly not “public” which is almost entirely a US concept. You do have to due your due diligence, especially at times like this.
That said, ferrying and delivery operations continue without any issues. A friend of mine is working full time.
boscomantico wrote:
It is all fairly absurd, but largely the UK reality.
Wow, wasn’t aware of that. Thank heavens I don’t live there anymore…. I obviously was / am keenly aware of all the little jobsworths running around in hi-viz vests and hiding behind ‘Health and Safety’ BS.
Digging a little deeper, it seems the guy to whom I referred left early last year – under something of a cloud.
I would call operations and either ask to speak with the boss or explain the circumstances and state that you’d like his/her consent in writing, just in case of a brush with law enforcement.
Ill give the guy a call. Anyone happens to know his name?
In practice anybody at the airport can tell ATC to decline a landing or takeoff clearance, and this applies anywhere in Europe. I’ve had a landing clearance refused in Italy, for example, because the OPS staff claimed they didn’t receive the PN.
