Slips

gallois wrote:

maybe the point is as an instructor would you teach side slips, or “Ss” to lose height during your approach to landing

My first, second and third instructors taught them as a basic tool to make a normal landing, which in many types is what they are.

This endless dumbing down of flying is annoying.

The trainer I learned on had neither flaps nor airbrakes. Sideslip was to max controls would allow.
The Jodel DR1050 had airbrakes, but not flaps. To raise them for a go-around needed a hand change on stick and moving the lever which was between the seats.
To stop slipping was easy. I often chose to sideslip.
I also sideslip the Bolkow Junior.
Descending turns while sideslipping are something I’ve done.
Speed tends to increase in a sideslip. Has a spin resulted from a DELIBERATE sideslip?
I only understand one sideslip type – crossed controls- bank with opposite rudder to prevent a turn. For height loss or crosswind landing.
Bank can be either left or right. One may permit more sideslip than the other.
On a rental checkout several years ago, in the UK, on the last approach, the relaxed instructor suddenly became tense and said “Co-ordination!”
I said “I’m sideslipping”. He responded. “I’d prefer you didn’t”.

There seem to be many useful skills which are no longer a part of pilot instruction, so they drift away from being “normal”. The fact that spins and slips are not taught in some jurisdictions, does not lesson their value as skills or, in some cases, piloting tools. If an observing pilot is afraid of a well flown slip, they should examine their own sense of norms, rather than those of a pilot who uses a slip as a skill.

Yes, you can stall and spin about any airplane by flying carelessly. A slip is not careless, in and of itself. I have been required to demonstrate a stall entry from a full sideslip as a part of demonstrating spin resistance during flight testing many singles, it has never been a problem. I have flown a final approach fully slipped (C172), and entered the flare while still slipped, touching one mainwheel first – yes, it chirps a lot doing that!

Unlike flaps, a slip can be modulated in and out for glidepath control. I’m much more comfortable picking an emergency landing spot which is apparently too close, then slipping into it, rather than stretching a glide. And, if you’ve chosen to slip, it’s because you would like to increase your drag. Drag increases as a square of the speed, so if you slip at a faster airspeed, you’ll create even more drag, so slips at unusually slow airspeeds aren’t really as beneficial anyway.

Learn to slip well, and practice often!

DeeCee57 wrote:

Unfortunately, the “art of flying” is dying… tailwheel skills, slips, aerobatics, crosswind handling, etc. All these basic flying skills should be required from FIs, period. And be taught.
Maybe too much time being mesmerised by all that glass in the panel, playing the airline pilot. Virtual flying for most: Aaaah, pushing the knob labeled AP, what a relief…

Flying the very honorable J3C Piper Cub for instance (you know, the cute yellow hi winger with cylinder heads hanging out in the breeze) will require a slip to be performed to land in any kind of short (yes, short like 200m or 600’) strip, the more so with any kind of obstacle in the approach path.

Who knows, the “art of flying”, and slipping, could save your life one day…

Couldn’t agree more. Besides, how are you going to land in a cross wind without slipping at one time. Then there is the Pa-18 with no flaps. Slipping is an implicit part of a stabilized approach.

There is way too much “airline flying” in aircraft that are so far away from being an airline as it is possible to be. It is very strange indeed. It’s as if the purpose is to teach people to fly without teaching them how an aircraft behaves. It would be like learning to drive a car on 4-8 lane motorway exclusively, and a two lane high way is considered a death trap to be avoided at all cost, not to mention a single lane dirt road which is considered “suicide”.

A month or so ago I checked out one guy in the Alphatrainer. He had gone through the “needle eye” with a million tests and initial flying/screening to become an F-35 pilot. Waiting for the “slot” in Texas, he wanted to fly a bit in the mean time. He had no problems whatsoever with anything, and he had done his “homework”, reading about the Alphatrainer. It’s like a Pa-18 when it comes short fields, sides lipping is a necessary part of the vocabulary. So that’s what we did; out in the area towards short stretches of “landable land” and while doing some touch and goes.

To me this IS what flying is all about. “Airline flying” would be sort of cool as well – but only if I had an aircraft remotely resembling an airline. This would mean at least two turbines, a crew of two, some nice air hostesses, and a salary to match Until that happens (which is never), then side slipping and all sorts of “tricks” is the way to go

Can we stop with this “slips = unstable approach”, where did this come from? as long as you are dead on speed & glide path it’s as stable as **** why we can’t say the same for touching flap, gear, power while on final bellow 1000ft agl, change of config/power is way more pounced than gentle slip?

While it did become irrelevant for PPL syllabus: maybe too much to ask with load of caveats for someone without much experience? it’s one tool out of many that one can use when they need it, someone with enough experience operating in +20kts crosswinds or weather, they better learn how to side slip? and also I think it should be mandatory for difference training in aircraft with electric flaps (how you plan to land it without flaps, declare an emergency and divert to Heathrow?), it also come handy for landing on bumpy surfaces a tiny drag from tiny side slip will fix it (someone will say raise flaps but I am sure Pilot_DAR will be unhappy )

On the art of slips and landing on one wheel, Bob Hoover said once, what is odd is to land with two wheels at the same time:

https://worldwarwings.com/bob-hoovers-legendary-one-wheel-landing/

A crab to crosswind landing is a co- ordinated approach and does not involve any use of cross controls unless you include the use of the pedals to straighten the aircraft and into wind aileron during flare.
As opposed to touching down on one wheel. Sideslipping as @Maoraigh describes is cross controls and out of balance during final approach in order to increase drag and lose either height or speed when not on plan.ie you are not set up for a stabilised approach and you are using a recovery tool.
I was taught this method in France some 25-30 years ago for my PPL.
Lately, during PPL training instructors have gone more towards the “S” which does exactly the same thing but the aircraft remains coordinated but also requires practice. It is the ‘S’ which is taught during engine out training.Especially during ULM training where the aircraft is so light that you have little or no inertia so it is common to keep some power right to touchdown or just before.
With engine, students are taught to prioritise the go around.
There are many other things which a now part of the PPL which were not when I took my PPL. For a start 5hrs were added to the original 40hrs for VSV (vol sans visibilité)training. The aircraft I started on had no flaps or airbrakes, and a tailwheel, nowadays with flaps recovery from being too high or too fast is much simpler. Whilst the aircraft I started in had no radio, as I progressed to X country during my PPL I had to learn to use the radio, when to call, who to call, what to say. At PPL level I learnt to fly on top and use VOR and ADF. Now training aircraft in many cases have GPS but the X country has become more difficult because of airspace restrictions, regulations regarding crossing water.
Years ago didn’t file a flight plan to go from mainland France to Corsica. In VFR you just flew one of the VFR routes. Now I believe it is obligatory to file a flight plan.
If someone wants to learn how to spin an aircraft (many modern aircraft need a lot of misuse to get it to spin) or side slip or make a precision landing with touchdown within a foot or 2 of the aiming point, I think that should be their perogative but IMO it is not necessary as part of PPL training.
Tales of how us “old farts” could land an aircraft on a puddle having started 2000’ too high and sideways on in a clapped out old taildragger with intermittent engines surges because they had only a dribble of fuel in the tank IMO are of no interest to the would be PPL of today who dreams of going places in an aircraft with a parachute.

gallois wrote:

I think that should be their perogative but IMO it is not necessary as part of PPL training.

That I completely agree but the OP has PPL already and he flies C182TR, I am sure it’s healthy to slip it

I no longer fly gliders, so any time I can I ty to make every VFR landing power off + side slip, flying on AP IFR and going down ILS is rather a luxury when engine & avionics are working but what saves the day are sharp hand flying skills (things like tailwheels, aerobatics, slips, gliding…)

@Ibra I don’t disagree with you about some kinds of hand flying skills. I tend to advise anyone having trouble nailing circuits to take a tailwheel course, because IMO the reason many have problems with keeping straight and holding off during take offs and landings is because of stress, particularly the legs tensing up. Taking off and landing in a tailwheel helps you to realise how much you are tensing up and to keep the feet loose.
I don’t think aerobatics helps any pilot who doesn’t have any ambition to do aerobatics and many PPLs , especially in France are of the older variety and really don’t want to pay for their eyes turned inside out.
Gliding is a useful skill if you fancy it. But so is the IR. You don’t need to be a glider pilot to fly an ILS but the ability to hand fly the green lines and dots accurately is helpful.
If the C182R and your friend is happy flying slips then that’s okay. There would be little point in him learning the ‘S’ technique just as if a pilot is happy landing on one wheel in heavy crosswinds there might be no reason to learn the crab technique.
But IMO pilots who are so committed to flying the techniques they do that no one else is entitled to an opinion or can possibly be a real pilot. They need to understand that many things evolve based on experiences.

gallois wrote:

Lately, during PPL training instructors have gone more towards the “S” which does exactly the same thing but the aircraft remains coordinated but also requires practice. It is the ‘S’ which is taught during engine out training.

I might argue that the “S” (if it’s what I think it is) is mostly a result of a 100% failed engine out procedure. The case is perhaps more that more than 50% of engine out procedures are failed, so it becomes a “normal”. The same could be said about a side slip I guess, but not if the field is short with obstacles (trees or whatever) on each end. Besides, there is no better way of losing track of your little patch of chosen land (distance, glide path and alt) than to veer of in other directions.