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Diverting on an International flight

There are many parts of France which border on other countries and where members of the local aeroclubs would not be in the habit of carrying a passport. They would usually have their ID card which is normally sufficient.
I was referring to a question which was in the oral part of the IR exam when I first did my IR.
I repeat it had slipped my mind that since I took that exam that Schengen had come into being.
I’m not sure that back before Schengen whether or not there were both French and Swiss border officials at Geneva.

France

In Germany there is no such notice requirement at international airports.

Germany has no airports which have immigration+customs and have no PNR or PPR?

The counting stamps thread relates to this discussion closely. This one also. Neither question has been usefully answered although IMHO fairly obviously the former one is unworkable for the police, and the latter one depends on whether you have flown out of there and are back home (in a different country) before they realise

I’ve never heard of a diversion (one that breaches the port of entry / immigration / customs) being an actual problem i.e. pilot arrest or a fine, but

  • it draws police attention, because diversions are SOP for nefarious purposes (unload “cargo” before anybody can turn up)
  • I would not do it (without a really good story, ideally a +TSRA / OVC001) if the departure was in the same country in which the filed destination was
  • there is ambiguity as to whether a fuel stop requires police presence (most would argue it does because GA airports don’t have segregation
  • I know of cases in Greece where ATC got angry on the radio when somebody did this overtly (even filing a FP to an “illegal” destination)
  • some towers will cancel a FP to an “illegal” destination (seen this with my own eyes) so this one is a no-no; also filing such an FP always draws attention of police if they are present at the departure airport

Like most people I have diverted a number of times. Mostly due to wx, or did an intermediate landing due to much stronger headwind, and I recall one occassion when the filed destination (PPR etc prearranged) sent me an email (picked up while airborne) saying that there is a new govt policy requiring a PCR test i.e. I will be arrested upon landing and quarantined! The email was later revealed to be a cockup by some “junior” but I was not to know that…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

You still need a passport according to the answer on the IR oral in France. The question comes up nearly every time.
Correction, I forgot, I did it before Schengen

Geneva’s dual status has been in place since 1956, way before Schengen. You can exit the airport without entering Switzerland if you want / have to.

T28
Switzerland

You can not regulate for cock ups or for people trying to buck the system.
You would find it very difficult (aviation wise) in France to be heavily fined or imprisoned for anything other than negligence (some might say wilfull negligence) or committing an infraction with malice. To which might be added the phrase “which could cause harm to third parties or their property” This is a brief precis of an article written by a well respected advocate and international lawyer specialising in aviation.
So to divert to another customs or non customs airfield for legitimate reasons should not attract penalty.
In an emergency, or something that could lead to an emergency situation as this would be seen (in France at least) the idea of PPR, PNR, PN would go out of the window. Safety takes priority.
But also the French are very pragmatic, the police could not possibly be seen not to do or say something and what they do or say will be different depending on the unit concerned.
Whilst, not wanting you to put the security of your flight at risk or to even for it to become a concern on future flights, they also cannot be seen to condone something that goes against what is written in the AIP or in other regulations.
But they also don’t want it to be seen as lax by pilots who might think to do for illegitimate reasons or who might make a habit of it and boasting in forums that they don’t bother with Ports of entry or exit when flying to and from France. And believe me there are many Brits who do this (I’m sorry to pick on Brits but with Schengen it is mostly Brits and why I was hoping for a GAR system here). Although for many who live here, or have 2nd homes here, they have made alternative arrangements for their entry and exit. Or did have before 1st Jan 2021 when customs got added.to the immigration checks needed.
So how would anyone know whether or not your diversion was legit?
As a pilot you would be on a flight plan and it would be for you to tell ATC that you are changing that FPL with an alternate destination
It would be up to ATS to decide whether or not to pass on such message to the police. But it would have to pass on the information to someone because they will expect a call closing your flight plan, otherwise SAR would be activated.
Despite what some people think, border forces are not usually stupid when it comes to suspecting who is legit and who is taking the p**s. Whilst some will undoubtedly pass without comment or a “customs says no problem continue to destination” from ATC others will be stopped and if suspected.of wrong doing will face further investigation.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the same is true for other European countries.

France

T28 wrote:

Geneva’s dual status has been in place since 1956, way before Schengen. You can exit the airport without entering Switzerland if you want / have to.

Not the GA terminal though…

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

Is that an issue? in most big airports where you can go in GA without handling will not have customs in GA terminal, you will have to park, use some exit and take Uber to CAT terminal and see customs yourself

In the past, I used to fly from UK to France and ask ATC to park near aeroclub or self fuel pump and just use the nearest exit (e.g. Brest, Nantes, Lille, Bergerac), now after Brexit, I ask to park in “international side” and do my best to use security/customs gates…

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Not the GA terminal though…

You can ask the shuttle to take you to the French sector.

T28
Switzerland

I just double checked with an instructor. Yes Geneva is joint customs but you still need a passport or identity card if diverting there from French airspace.
He couldn’t remember whether the question is still on the IR oral exam paper.

France

Personally, I wouldn’t just divert to a non-international airfield, except if there is a real high (safety) emergency. Especially in Switzerland, small aerodromes even ask for customs PNR/PPR when you’re plan to use their airfield as alternate. So if I fly to Switzerland to a small airfield, I only use official international airports (or airfields in the EU) as alternate to prevent this additional bureaucracy.

Even more critical is Norway this year, which only allows international arrivals at a few selected international airports due Covid-19 checks. That made alternate choices even more difficult, especially with an airplane with not such a high endurance. On the other hand: Getting “problems” with immigration is not ‘nice’, but the border police is mostly reasonable in case you’re cooperative. Dealing with customs is way more ‘dangerous’, as they might charge you with enormous fees in case they think you’re breaking the customs/tax rules, even if the rules are unreasonable.

Peter wrote:

Germany has no airports which have immigration+customs and have no PNR or PPR?
Of course they have, all official international airports have immigration and customs without any PNR or PPR requirements. I guess that was also exactly what @Malibuflyer said.
Last Edited by Frans at 25 Oct 08:45
Switzerland

Ibra wrote:

Is that an issue? in most big airports where you can go in GA without handling will not have customs in GA terminal, you will have to park, use some exit and take Uber to CAT terminal and see customs yourself

The whole point of customs and immigration checks is, that the police/borderforce/customes/… at least have the opportunity to check you from the very moment you open the door of the aircraft?

If you carried a person that is not allowed to immigrate, a controlled substance, money from criminal activities, etc. with you, what would be the odds that you would take them in an uber to present it to customs?!?

Germany
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