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What will FAA IRs / N-reg pilots do in the UK after 21 December 2021?

You are right; I need to expand my list of jokes

I’ve just re-extended my UK PPL NPPL IMC IR so I am done, until, hey ho, the next time…

If you wonder why the CAA is so utterly unept and idiotic, look at some of the forms, where you have to fill in your details twice on the same page

It will be interesting to see what the long term effects of this cockup will be. The UK has a sizeable GA community, while the other countries which either never derogated or recently stopped derogating from this stupid and blatently anti-American Brussels regulation, either have much smaller / insignificant GA communities, or everybody there runs stuff under the radar / on the basis of who you know.

The latest derogation table posted here is this one from 2017. With difficulty I found this one from July 2019 (curiously, within it it says June 2022) here

and it speaks for itself!

Bear in mind Denmark and Norway ban N-regs anyway.

The discussion on the UK GA chat sites is practically nil; not sure what that tells us.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I know this topic has been beaten to death in multiple threads, but think my situation is slightly different.

I am a EU citizen but resident in the UK and own a N-reg plane. I hold a UK PPL + IR(R) + Night rating. I also have a FAA PPL piggybacked on my UK PPL. I’d like to fly in Europe in IMC for my own pleasure. I (think I) understand the complexities and limitations of doing a FAA IR or EASA IR (incl. CB-IR) but fall short on the Basic IR (BIR).

What is my best path forward?
- Can I do a BIR or is that not available to UK PPL yet? Any views if and when that would become possible?
- EASA IR then piggyback it for the FAA vs. FAA IR straight?
- Any other suggestion?

United Kingdom

If you are not resident in an EASA country, you need UK IR* + FAA IR**.

*for UK (unless they allow it with only an FAA IR)

**for flying in EASA countries

So in your case, the FAA „foreign license“ IR theory test should work.

The BIR is a non ICAO EASA rating. Since UK is not with EASA anymore, I doubt they will implement it and therefore you’d need an EASA license to add the EASA BIR.

Edit: I misread and thought you are a US citizen. The above probably doesn’t apply to a non resident EU citizen?

Last Edited by Snoopy at 03 Feb 17:34
always learning
LO__, Austria

BIR not available in UK, but even if it was it would not be recognised in Europe because it is sub-ICAO.
I wouldn’t count on it becoming available soon in the UK. The IRR is easier to get and arguably almost as useful

UK part-FCL IR (we don’t have EASA licences in UK anymore) and piggyback is one option. This would require a trip to the US to sit the foreign pilot theory exam.

An EASA PPL/IR will not be recognised for N reg in the UK for residents after 2022 so not worth pursuing

Alternatively you could acquire an FAA IR, requiring a trip to the US, for use outside UK and stick with using your IRR here. You could choose to convert it to your UK licence later if required with no theory exams just skill test. The FAA IR would best be done in the US.

My suggestion would be EASA IR then add to your piggyback FAA but it really depends on how much time you can afford and want to spend training in the US. Take proof of your UK residency in case of ramp checks.

It would help if you had an ADF for the IR skill test but their are workarounds.

EDIT: crossed posts with Snoopy but I don’t think we have any conflicting advice,

Last Edited by DavidC at 03 Feb 17:43
FlyerDavidUK, PPL & IR Instructor
EGBJ, United Kingdom

@ZeJibe posts moved to practically same existing thread. The unusual bit is that you have an N-reg but don’t have the FAA IR.

You are asking about your options, which are basically in this thread, and as with all discussion about “how to do an IR” they depend on your “lifestyle options and preferences”. The system is a huge mess and what is doable for one person is a hassle for another. Actually an IR is a big hassle for everyone, which is so few people in Europe have one.

To cover the UK airspace end, as discussed above, you can do it on the IMCR and keeping out of Class A in the UK. That is quite practical, unless you need to fly at FL100 from Shoreham to Oban or Ireland, etc. which get a bit messy.

To cover IFR on the mainland you need an FAA IR. There are 2 ways to do that:

  • UK IR (CBIR) and then do the FAA “foreign pilot exam IR”
  • FAA standalone IR (which can be added to a standalone FAA PPL/CPL, or to your 61.75 FAA PPL)

The 1st one is a well defined route, other than FTO hassles and getting them to take on your plane, etc. Then a long weekend in the US for the exam.

The 2nd one is more complicated, unless you do it all in the US. It is possible to do an FAA IR in Europe but due to rearguard actions by certain Europe based “interests”, it is messy, starting with finding a decent DPE. I did my FAA IR in the US, with the IMCR training accepted as a credit as standard – here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

To cover IFR on the mainland you need an FAA IR. There are 2 ways to do that: UK IR (CBIR) and then do the FAA “foreign pilot exam IR” FAA standalone IR (which can be added to a standalone FAA PPL/CPL, or to your 61.75 FAA PPL)

The 1st one is a well defined route, other than FTO hassles and getting them to take on your plane, etc. Then a long weekend in the US for the exam.

The 2nd one is more complicated, unless you do it all in the US. It is possible to do an FAA IR in Europe but due to rearguard actions by certain Europe based “interests”, it is messy, starting with finding a decent DPE. I did my FAA IR in the US, with the IMCR training accepted as a credit as standard – here.

To add:
There is now no way to pass any FAA IR exams outside the US, so for that you would have to travel there. I’m not sure about the visas required, but @Peter would know! :)

EGTR

I am a EU citizen but resident in the UK and own a N-reg plane

Where your aircraft is based (I think what matters is where it’s parked most of the time and where it’s VAT free in EU or in UK)? where do you think you are based (EU resident or UK resident)? one answer my solve “double license” problem but may mess up “aircraft finance” due to import rules…

Last Edited by Ibra at 03 Feb 18:37
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Where your aircraft is based (I think what matters is where it’s parked most of the time and where it’s VAT free in EU or in UK)? where do you think you are based (EU resident or UK resident)? one answer my solve “double license” problem but may mess up “aircraft finance” due to import rules…

I don’t understand that at all. How is VAT status relevant to the UK ANO post-Dec-2021 dual papers requirement? It is nothing to do with it.

If you can establish non UK residence (to your satisfaction; there is no definition for this purpose) then you can fly on just FAA papers, but this chap already has the UK PPL and IMCR… It would merely mean that once he gets an FAA IR, he could fly fully IFR in the UK without needing a UK IR.

now no way to pass any FAA IR exams outside the US

Indeed.

I doubt you would need a visa, especially if you don’t tell anybody But @Qalupalik is the one to ask…

For an FAA IR I would seriously consider what I did in 2006. The European/UK+checkride route is tricky and if the eventual DPE is “not around” then you will still need to go to the US for the checkride. I believe Orbifly (in N France) were running this route, and it sort of worked if you were very careful.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

How is VAT status relevant to the UK ANO post-Dec-2021 dual papers requirement? It is nothing to do with it

You won’t need CAA papers to fly an N-reg aircraft that is not based in UK?

Last Edited by Ibra at 03 Feb 19:04
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I doubt you would need a visa, especially if you don’t tell anybody

https://www.euroga.org/forums/student-pilots/13366-is-a-student-visa-needed-to-sit-an-faa-written-test-only-no-flight-training

Dublin, Ireland
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