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IFR pickups from non-IFR airports in Paris area - plan extra fuel!

Ha we have been down this route before. I was trying to simplify and stick more operations than get into the legalities. Also, as I wrote I find it easier to plan a route as I see it so have not read the airfield charts you have mentioned, lately. Yes you can file an IFPL from many uncontrolled airfields and some give take off minima. As with many regulations much is left to the pilot to interpret what is meant in practicality.
You write yourself that at Chartres you can take off IFR with 550m but you need 1500m VIS due to Arrete 2019. Which do you use?
But if Chartres is Class G and you need 1500m isn’t that the same minima as you would need in VFR? If you decide you are IFR at what point do you put your eyes inside the cockpit?
Putting aside the fact, on which I am sure we can both agree, that you need approval to enter CAS, whether IFR or VFR, and need to follow directions the only major differences are the weather and of course you :would have to refuse entry into Class A.
The advantage of taking off IFR from class G Chartres at 1500m horizontal vis would be that you could remain clear of CAS and keep safe to some extent by entering the low cloud which forms a ceiling at less than 500ft which you could not do in VFR.
But there you are, talking to no one climbing through a layer of cloud looking at your instruments and trying to contact the nearest suitable ATS. You are okay you are still in class G and the cloud layer is thin. At 2000ft you break out straight into a Robin on a VFR on top flight from Paris. How do you think the DGAC would interpret the rules in the subsequent enquiry?
Of course its a big sky and the chance of 2 aircraft being in the same place at the same time, that would be too much of a coincidence, wouldn’t it?🙂

France

You are okay you are still in class G and the cloud layer is thin. At 2000ft you break out straight into a Robin on a VFR on top flight from Paris. How do you think the DGAC would interpret the rules in the subsequent enquiry?
Of course its a big sky and the chance of 2 aircraft being in the same place at the same time, that would be too much of a coincidence, wouldn’t it

It’s the other way around, people who are flying VFR outside clouds on PPL in gliders or robins near Chartres, are definetly not expecting IFR to fly outside clouds or maintain VMC, can you imagine hitting a wooden Robin trying to avoid clouds? think about it, if you stick to IFR inside clouds and them doing VFR outside clouds you will do everybody a favour

The logic above may not be obvious but remember if you call Orly for start up there is only one IFR slot or departure allowed into TMA, so technically you are the only aircraft in those clouds and unless the ceiling is 4kft please leave blue holes to those who fly on PPL and go hide in the soup with your IR….anyone who flies in clouds has ModeS, they are visible on TAS (available for 10k$)

Anyway, there is no point departing on Z-FPL, flying on I-FPL is the norm in France and it’s highly appreciated by ATC/DGAC (not the exception or aberration), same for arrivals, I-FPL works for every runway threshold, I can descend to 800ft in Dreux before diverting all under instrument rules, I never heard of “Y-FPL” or “cancel IFR” going to uncontrolled airfields in France? “autorisé pour la descente, votre ETA pour la clôture?” ou “rappelez nous si vous êtes en montée?”

For traffic collision in clouds in Golf, I would be interested to know how it works in Fontnay (LFFK) given that there is no ATC and no Delta CTR? sounds about the same scary situation as departure from Chartres (LFOR) with plenty of Robins bimbling around, do you file Z-FPL and remain VMC out of LFFK untill LaRochelle CTR/TMA? same for arrival you do on Y-FPL?

Last Edited by Ibra at 30 Jun 18:50
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

gallois wrote:

Of course being in IMC in VFR is not permitted.

France does not permit Special VFR?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Yes it does but it is called “VFR Special”:)
Just as we delineate “VFR de Nuit” Night VFR.
Perhaps we just delineate more but then we are more bureaucratic in general.

France

gallois wrote:

Yes it does but it is called “VFR Special”:)
Just as we delineate “VFR de Nuit” Night VFR.
Perhaps we just delineate more but then we are more bureaucratic in general.

My point was that Special VFR is “being IMC in VFR”. Clear of clouds, obviously,

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

There is no SVFR in uncontrolled airspace or uncontrolled aerodromes without ATS I have this problem regularly when crossing the gate (3kft amsl or 1kft agl) at 145KIAS on departure

Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

I called DSNA who fwd my call to ATC

You mean the general (national) number +(33) 1 58 09 49 02, or the regional CRNA or a nearby SNA?

ELLX

Yes nearby SNA for your nearby airport, they will fwd to ATC better than calling switchboard, the hate to fwd to tower…

Last Edited by Ibra at 01 Jul 15:20
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

Just a tiny details, IFR start up or join clearance is likely to be in French when aerodrome is “FR only”…not an issue for lionel ofc

Last Edited by Ibra at 01 Jul 18:47
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

Who is giving you your IFR start up or clearance at an uncontrolled airfield?
If you talk to the nearest approach ATC on the phone your “IFR activation and transponder code” will just as readily be given in English.
With no tower on the field you will (at a fr.only field,) need to auto announce in French until you change frequency either to an SIV or an ATC inside controlled airspace.
Or least that’s how we would do it at LFFK, if we were to phone for IFPL activation.

France
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