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Night flying in Germany with a foreign license - legal?

Hi all,

I’ve been trying to have the LBA confirm this but they haven’t responded to my enquiry yet.

I don’t have a night rating yet but I consider getting one and flying night VFR in Germany. I’m holding a UK CAA-issued EASA PPL.

Now in NfL II – 4/95 and GEN 1.5-9 of the German AIP I read this:

> Every holder of a private pilot’s Iicence issued by an EG member state may pilot aircraft
registered in the Federal Republic of Germany. The recognition is restricted to […] VFR flights by day.

In reverse, holders of a private pilot’s license issued by an EG member state are not allowed to fly VFR by night? Moreover, this sentence would exclude IFR flights for these individuals – which simply cannot be true?

What am I overlooking here?

Cheers

Hungriger Wolf (EDHF), Germany

It applies to an non-German licence flying a German registered aircraft. I don’t think you are missing anything. And it would exclude IFR.

EGTK Oxford

An interesting catch.

Obviously, this NfL dates back to times well before JAR-FCL. On the other hand, it’s written in the current AIP. Hmmm…

Gives a whole new perspective to having a licesnse from a different EU country…

Can’t you have your license re-issued by the LBA? Maybe you don’t want to?

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

You hold an EASA licence so what should the problem be. I suspect it is applicable to licences issued outside EASA territory.

I regularly fly VFR Night in Germany in Dutch registered aircraft with a JAA licence

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

> I suspect it is applicable to licences issued outside EASA territory.

No, it explictly applies to licenses issued by other EU countries.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Oh FFS… there goes my mid-week booking next week…

@Rhino, can you post on here as soon as you get an answer… plus any chance you could email me (via Peter) a copy of the reply if it is allowed? I would like to have a letter from the LBA in my flight bag…

EDIT

Actually reading the AIP makes it also sound like you can only have the recognition for up to six months, and only if temporalily resident… See 1.5-9 Para. 3.1…

But it all seems to apply to only German registered aircraft… Anyone in Stuttgart got another EU-Reg machine they want to rent me :)

EDHS, Germany

Anyway, I wouldn’t worry too much. Again, that NfL was written 20 years ago and at the time, it was intended as a facilitation, not a restriction. JAR-FCL and EASA works different. And a recent threat evidenced that basic air law stands above AIP publications ;-)

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

> Every holder of a private pilot’s Iicence issued by an EG member state may pilot aircraft registered in the Federal Republic of Germany. The recognition is restricted to […] VFR flights by day.

I think this statement only concerns the old national PPL, not the JAR-FCL or EASA-FCL PPL as they include night flying.

EDxx, Germany

Out of interest though, if the NfL was written in 1995 and the AIP in 2009… what document supersedes those… Surely the AIP is a sub of the National legal document which in turn should reflect EASA.

Maybe it is a misunderstanding on my part… but if the NfL states it, does it matter what the others says, isn’t the NfL the Air Law document for Germany?

Or does an EASA document override?

EDHS, Germany

> Can’t you have your license re-issued by the LBA? Maybe you don’t want to?

That would be the consequence if I find my current setup is limiting me in any way. Although my due diligence before I chose this path suggested otherwise and I hope I can avoid the additional paperwork required to re-issue. I might move to and live in another EU country in the future, possibly the UK, and I wouldn’t want to have to chase licenses as I do so.

> @Rhino, can you post on here as soon as you get an answer… plus any chance you could email me (via Peter) a copy of the reply if it is allowed? I would like to have a letter from the LBA in my flight bag…

Most certainly. My email has been out for two weeks, though and I haven’t heard from them yet. Another reason to stick with Gatwick. They’ve always responded to any inquiries I had considerably faster. ;-)

Hungriger Wolf (EDHF), Germany
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